Stephen Fry - Stonewall "nonsensical"

[fromorbit]

Another Reverse Ferret dashes out of cover.

Stonewall ‘has got stuck in a terrible quagmire,' Stephen Fry tells Triggernometry. ‘I have no interest or support of this current wave of nonsensical… It’s shameful and sad.’

The Rise of the Right is the Left's Fault - Stephen Fry

Good to see on one level, but irritating at the same time Fry didn't support the truth when it was hard. He also slags off Dave Chappelle for truth telling in the same interview. Someone tried to kill him though. Thousands of women faced death threats for saying biology is real, lost jobs and opportunities. Kids had their lives ruined.

More to the point now Fry feels it is safe to come out it shows we are winning, but a LOT more to do and the genderists will resist every step of the way.

'to go into the whole transgender argument it will take us down some very dark and smelly alleys'

What does this actually mean?

It means "I started to think about this but then decided Nah, can't be arsed. But I want you to think that I have really applied my huge brain to the issue."

It's the Boris-ian metaphor - a little ironic, a little nonsensical, a little naughty... & wholly evasive in its cynical use of "knowing" humour to evade any acknowledgement of actual, er... knowing.

And very well put you too.
I would add to the mix a side of narcissistic personality disorder and the menu is complete.

He uses a lot of thought terminating clichés, like he's come out from under the rock because he thinks he's found clever ways to obfuscate, not realising we've heard it all before...

Its what i find fustrating about the trigg interviewing style. They get so fanboy with some guests, they just nod along to anything said, and never ask for clarification.

The sentence in isolation seems to suggest that transgenderism doesnt have good outcomes, but if that was the case why admire children caught up with it? Unless 'transgender argument' is the often talked about heat of the discussion?

I think Frys exposure to trans ideology is via men (like izzard, jan morris) who are having a brilliant time. He's aware of Cass, but what he takes from the cass report is anyones guess.

He seems to want people to afirm children, think there something troubling about the 'transgender argument', and has a recent and unspecified problem with stonewall.

Quite a vague really. Hardly worth saying.

I've got a more prosaic view that Fry is aware that if he says anything sensible about gender identity ideology he'll have so much shit flung at him he'll never be able to rid himself of the smell. So it's circumlutions all the way.

self-pity is the ugliest emotion in humanity.'

Interesting.

More ugly than resentment, murderous rage, self-righteousness?

Is he just hyperbolising or has he no sense of proportion?

I have a thought about that but I’m pretty sure that expressing it would get me banned.

⬆️

From the same Stephen Fry who flounces from twotter for the smallest slight. He's incredibly self pitying

NRTFT or the link, yet I think Fry has tried to be obliquely helpful during the difficult times. I remember he did a programme on mythical creatures, where he amped up his old duffer persona and interviewed JK Rowling about them. It was a very tense watch at the time, it came across as his solidarity- supporting her as a loved household figure, when she was being ostracised. It was a bit cowardly as far as bravery goes, but it came across as caring.

Edited to add link https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001503x (aired Feb 22)

I'm watching the whole interview at the moment and he's possibly one of the most boring old farts they've had on.

Maybe it's the fact that every 2 minutes they've got ads which interrupts the flow, but I think he's been dining out on the fantastic comedy he did when he was young with Hugh Laurie for years and isn't that funny or interesting anymore. I do remember he managed to do what must be one of the most difficult feats anyone has ever achieved - make Oscar Wilde seem boring. (That film.. deadly.)

That section when he talked about Dave Chapelle making jokes about trans children was where they really failed to challenge him. I can't remember a single joke DC has ever made about trans children. What SF was doing there, was conflating criticism and mockery of trans ideology with attacking confused, groomed children. Don't tell me he's not clever enough to know the difference, he's carefully sticking to that narrative so that when he's this side of the golden bridge he can pretend that it was reasonable to be on the other side of the bridge all along.

@SnoringPets - You are right, I will give Fry that at least, he didn’t join in the Witch Hunts against JK and he carried on working with her through a period where most were too scared of getting a good cancelling over it.

I also think it’s good he went on Triggerpod - I don’t watch them as much as I used to (so much choice these days!) but it’s almost unfathomable that they would be able to get an interview Fry a few years back, when Frances and Konstantin were first finding their way after more or less giving up on the super right on UK comedy circuit.

IIRC Fry had a fairly friendly semi adversarial relationship with Jordan Peterson (Christian V Atheist) both wordy types that sometimes stray into lala territory from two different directions, so perhaps that’s the connection that made this possible?

When fry talks about the bravery of children declaring themselves as trans at school, hes imagining it the same as someone his age coming out as gay when at school. Its a completely different situation and has completely different implications for the child and other children.

He's obviously read accounts of adults coming out as trans, and thought that bravery admirable in children.

But, hes doesnt seem to see the issues these children have faced, or what its like for children to be forced to accept a school mate having 'changed sex'. If a child has experienced abuse, its not brave to declare themselves trans. Its not fair for children to cope with preferred pronouns at school, or to be in an environment where a boy could become a girl.

He's not understanding that what consenting adults can deal with, children cannot. I hope he sees this soon.

My sense is that he understands that there are serious issues around the medicalization of children and puberty blockers and such, but that he accepts that there is some kind of objective "trans child" phenomena, although maybe not quite in the way that SW sees it.

He may also see there are some issue with the sw has pushed for things like male people in some female spaces.

I don't think he's dug into what is really meant by a "trans" person, or possibly he sees it still mainly in terms of the gay male type.

He seems to think some people are being mean to kids who are struggling, without much sense of who that is.

Peterson and Fry were also on the same side in the Munk debate about political correctness.

You are right, I will give Fry that at least, he didn’t join in the Witch Hunts against JK and he carried on working with her through a period where most were too scared of getting a good cancelling over it.

He didn't join them but didn't condemn them or show any support for JKR and for that I detest him. He knew the level of abuse and threats she was getting and stayed silent but happily took the cheque on offer. Cowardly, reprehensible man.

I'm in the school of Fuck him and the horse he rode in on as far as the odious, misogynist Stephen Fry is concerned.

The trouble with all these people is that their ideas are never properly interrogated by journalists. Any half-decent interviewer should be able to ask them follow-up questions. In a recent interview Toksvig was claiming the trans issue was all about people getting unnecessarily upset about toilets - well, why not say to her, actually, it's not just toilets, it's changing rooms, prisons, rape crisis centres? Ask her what she thinks about the Isla Bryson case or the Wii Spa case or the Darlington nurses. But it's always the same, they're always allowed to get away with making unevidenced assertions, and never exposed to proper scrutiny.

You monster! Don't you realise these people are National Treasures?

KjK was the interviewee who they pushed back on the most. Ive never seen them come anywhere close to that with celebrities whatever they come out with.

I've never watched Triggernometry or however you spell it. So, in my ignorance, do you think they pitch their questions depending on what they sense their interviewee will take? KJK is a battler, isn't afraid of hard questions and probably relishes the opportunity. Fry and Toksvig not so much, with an unhealthy dose of 'how dare you, don't you know who I think I am'? They don't want a flounce.

They sort of roleplay being somewhat journalist-adjacent but defer to power. The more power a guest has in the domains in which they want to have a presence, the more deference they'll display.

That's not true, he publicly said that he thought she had a right to her opinion and that she didn't think trans people should be bullied, etc. and that he would not condemn her.

It was a bit "all sides" but he explicitly addressed it.

When fry talks about the bravery of children declaring themselves as trans at school, hes imagining it the same as someone his age coming out as gay when at school. Its a completely different situation and has completely different implications for the child and other children.

Yes. He's either not aware (hard to believe) or just ignoring the fact that for a child who turns to trans as an explanation for the problems in their lives, "coming out as trans" is actually reaching for a protective blanket, not exposing yourself in the way coming out as gay used to mean.

Girls who come out as lesbians are still derided, sneered at and subjected to horrible homophobic abuse and teachers tell them not to take any notice of the bullies. If OTOH they come out as trans, suddenly the whole apparatus of institutional protection surrounds them; teachers sternly march off any questioner to detention, people applaud them for their bravery at best or at worst simply stop bullying them (which often they did before, because so many of these kids who conclude they're trans are social misfits who didn't fit in with any of the peer groups available to them in school).

He's ignoring the fact that declaring yourself trans can be a way in to the in crowd, rather than a guarantee of being an outcast, as declaring yourself gay was when he was at school (and still is for many kids). Maybe because he's genuinely unaware of that, to give him the benefit of the doubt.