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Stephen Fry - Stonewall "nonsensical"

198 replies

fromorbit · 19/12/2024 10:58

Another Reverse Ferret dashes out of cover.

Stonewall ‘has got stuck in a terrible quagmire,' Stephen Fry tells Triggernometry. ‘I have no interest or support of this current wave of nonsensical… It’s shameful and sad.’

The Rise of the Right is the Left's Fault - Stephen Fry

Good to see on one level, but irritating at the same time Fry didn't support the truth when it was hard. He also slags off Dave Chappelle for truth telling in the same interview. Someone tried to kill him though. Thousands of women faced death threats for saying biology is real, lost jobs and opportunities. Kids had their lives ruined.

More to the point now Fry feels it is safe to come out it shows we are winning, but a LOT more to do and the genderists will resist every step of the way.

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9
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 19/12/2024 14:38

I have met Fry several times.

I always felt I would like a shower as soon as I got home.

ArabellaScott · 19/12/2024 14:47

Well, he's trending on X, and he seems to have pissed off absolutely everyone.

RethinkingLife · 19/12/2024 14:49

Maybe we should write something to the tune of Robin Hood (not the Bryan Adams)? (Lyricist I'm not.)

Golden bridge, golden bridge, take the bridge right now
Golden bridge, golden bridge, a welcome mat's set out
…

HPandthelastwish · 19/12/2024 14:51

We are all allowed to change our minds on things. Many of us originally at the start were supportive until the reality of what was happening hit. It's a shame it has taken so long but that's hardly surprising.

YellowAsteroid · 19/12/2024 15:14

Steven Fry got irritating when he set himself up as a National Treasure in Waiting. QI was unwatchable and I’m an egghead nerd who likes mulling over big ideas for light conversation.

Yes, he’s come to his senses, but he’s still a pompous self-regarding man. Doing the interview in his Garrick Club tie! I mean, it’s a nice enough place to hang out ( the food is superb) but pretentious much?

A pity he wasn’t on the frontline of talking down the Stonewall madness when it was really needed. And a pity he hadn’t publicly called for the uncancellation of Graham Linehan. Richard Adeoyde is worth 10 of him and is wittier and cleverer.

RethinkingLife · 19/12/2024 15:15

StellaAndCrow · 19/12/2024 12:33

That's enraging. It pisses me off so much to hear people like him coming in NOW, only when they see the tide has turned. He's been all "less heat more light" "fault on both sides" for years. What's changed now Stephen?

Helen Joyce always predicted this would happen. And, the only option is to accept this if change is to be made in a reasonable timescale. (And the hard and time intensive work of disentangling the ideology from organisations can begin.)

YellowAsteroid · 19/12/2024 15:16

HPandthelastwish · 19/12/2024 14:51

We are all allowed to change our minds on things. Many of us originally at the start were supportive until the reality of what was happening hit. It's a shame it has taken so long but that's hardly surprising.

Some of us have always had a problem with men demanding we see them as women …. I can remember arguing about this with a drag queen in about 1980.

Glamourreader · 19/12/2024 15:24

I wonder what prompted the change, did a man explain it to Stephen Fry?

Sandi T is going to furious!

illinivich · 19/12/2024 15:26

BonfireLady · 19/12/2024 14:29

How will others - Toksvig, Sara Pascoe, Nish Kumar, all the rest of the idiots - respond? Will they follow Fry by tiptoeing gently across the golden bridge, hoping nobody notices, or will they all ostracise him for siding with the evil Terfy fascists? What a difficult decision that is going to be. I'm sure we'll all derive a lot of amusement from watching the gears grind in their tiny little brains as they work it all out.

Yes, objectively speaking it's going to be pretty hilarious to see who lands where. Each of them will have had their reasons for backing this wholeheartedly. For some it'll just be about Being Kind (and demonstrating this for PR purposes) but for others there could be some personal investment, so they'll dig in.

Toksvig and Kumar I'm ambivalent about. Overall it'll be helpful to see more common sense emerging but I'll continue to enjoy their comedy (I do miss the Mash Report) while also thinking they have failed a critical thinking test and contributed to the ostracisation of those who did have this skill. Pascoe I would like to see wake up. I saw her present the Booker shortlist book readings (all 6 authors were there) at the National Theatre a few years ago and loved her warmth, humour and curiosity. Obviously this is currently her blind spot, but it used to be mine too when I was a Be Kinder. (I never threw anyone under a bus but I certainly would have recoiled at anyone being "blunt" about what sex and gender identity mean, as I would have seen it).

Edited

I think pascoe has a trans inlaw, so i dont think shes going to say anything anytime soon.

I havent listened to the interview, but im surprised hes critised dave chappelle. He hasnt done anything other than be funny.

Abhannmor · 19/12/2024 15:29

MichaelaFrey · 19/12/2024 12:51

For a supposedly intelligent and well-read man to consistently use the term 'intersex' reeks of ignorance and lack of real knowledge of DSDs. I don't think he's at all bright. I think he's one of those blessed with an eidetic memory and able to just parrot knowledge. And he doesn't consider women worth as much as men.

Yeah this. He comes across as a bit of a spoofer really. I think he once played Oscar Wilde in something? The idea seems to have got about that he is a great intellectual. Perhaps it's not his fault people set too much store by his opinion on this or that. But his cowardice and lack of integrity has been very disappointing.

ArabellaScott · 19/12/2024 15:30

YellowAsteroid · 19/12/2024 15:14

Steven Fry got irritating when he set himself up as a National Treasure in Waiting. QI was unwatchable and I’m an egghead nerd who likes mulling over big ideas for light conversation.

Yes, he’s come to his senses, but he’s still a pompous self-regarding man. Doing the interview in his Garrick Club tie! I mean, it’s a nice enough place to hang out ( the food is superb) but pretentious much?

A pity he wasn’t on the frontline of talking down the Stonewall madness when it was really needed. And a pity he hadn’t publicly called for the uncancellation of Graham Linehan. Richard Adeoyde is worth 10 of him and is wittier and cleverer.

Ohhhhh is that what it is. Ghastly.

LunaNorth · 19/12/2024 15:31

BonfireLady · 19/12/2024 13:03

Can I put a tenner on Jason Manford please?

See above.

Sandi will take a bit longer I think. She's probably still consulting with people to understand what she's supposed to say when deciding who the women are. The break up of the Women's Equality Party will have presumably left her unclear on which path of blowing wind she should follow when forming her "own" opinion.

Sandi, if you're reading this, here's a clue: if you listen to the people who want to end this experimentation on children's brains and bodies, they all say the same thing about who the women are. Second clue: no, they aren't upholding traditional stereotypes about how women should behave and be. That's the other lot.

Show quote history

Sandi knows who the women are when she wants to get married.

FriedGold32 · 19/12/2024 15:36

hholiday · 19/12/2024 12:21

I’ve only watched half of this so far but I’ve noticed all of the references he gives, whether it’s philosophers or modern-day quotes, are men. He only mentions women in passing and always in a censorious context (Mrs thatcher, Mary whitehouse, his great aunt). Perhaps if men like him had been more inclined to take women’s viewpoints seriously and engage with the rationale behind our views, trans ideology and its harms would never have been able to take hold to the extent it has. I hope some day men like Fry acknowledge that.

One thing that I've come to realise as I've followed this issue in the last few years is that there's a huge amount of subtle misogyny/sexism amongst gay men (I'm a straight man for the record)

When you see it amongst straight men, it tends to be more explicit because it tends to be sexually motivated and I think there's a widespread cultural belief that sexism and misogyny basically don't exist in gay men for that reason. But in gay men I've noticed a much more subtle dismissive attitude towards women, as if their concerns are of less worth. As a straight bloke with a wife and daughters, it's always been heavily in my interests to understand women's issues in relation to my own, the differences between the sexes etc. I really don't think a lot of gay men could give a toss and haven't thought about it for 5 minutes in their lives.

Floisme · 19/12/2024 15:40

I've not watched the interview yet but, if he's said, 'I've changed my mind and I'm sorry I got it wrong' then my view will be ok, fair enough. But if not then I'll stay suspicious.

FriedGold32 · 19/12/2024 15:40

illinivich · 19/12/2024 15:26

I think pascoe has a trans inlaw, so i dont think shes going to say anything anytime soon.

I havent listened to the interview, but im surprised hes critised dave chappelle. He hasnt done anything other than be funny.

Show quote history

He specifically refers to Dave Chappelle making jokes about "trans children" which as far as I know is just objectively false, I've never seen Chappelle even touch on children.

FriedGold32 · 19/12/2024 15:43

Floisme · 19/12/2024 15:40

I've not watched the interview yet but, if he's said, 'I've changed my mind and I'm sorry I got it wrong' then my view will be ok, fair enough. But if not then I'll stay suspicious.

The Stonewall comment is not in the main interview in case anyone is not aware, it was in the paywalled Q&A section afterwards.

x.com/soppystern/status/1869461018637705539

TitusMoan · 19/12/2024 15:44

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 19/12/2024 14:38

I have met Fry several times.

I always felt I would like a shower as soon as I got home.

That’s very interesting.

I’m not sure how he’s attained National Treasure status. To quote someone (sorry I’ve forgotten who) I think he is a stupid person’s idea of a clever man.

If you look at what he actually does and says, he’s not a very nice person at all. Expelled from school, as a young adult he stole someone’s credit card, always a power imbalance in his favour in his relationships, ruined the Cell Mates play by disappearing and only then came up with some kind of diagnosis to try and excuse it (bipolar, later downgraded to cyclothymia) clearly doesn’t like women and can’t cope with criticism. For example, he “deleted his Twitter account after receiving criticism for a tweet commenting on Jenny Beavan’s outfit choice at that year's BAFTAs where she received an award for costume design”. Plus years of cocaine use.

PriOn1 · 19/12/2024 15:56

FriedGold32 · 19/12/2024 15:43

The Stonewall comment is not in the main interview in case anyone is not aware, it was in the paywalled Q&A section afterwards.

x.com/soppystern/status/1869461018637705539

Show quote history

“Stonewall ‘has got stuck in a terrible quagmire,' Stephen Fry tells Triggernometry. ‘I have no interest or support of this current wave of nonsensical… It’s shameful and sad.’“

He’s still being incredibly vague, presumably deliberately so as to allow for deniability.

Nonsensical what, Stephen?

Bigredcombine · 19/12/2024 16:04

The name calling on this thread is shameful.
It must and should be ok for someone to change their mind. Better late than never.

nauticant · 19/12/2024 16:30

I think he's changed his signalling rather than changed his mind.

Floisme · 19/12/2024 16:33

I agree about changing your mind. This, after all, is how we win and many of us on this board have done it. I've just got one proviso: admit that you've changed your mind. I'm not talking about apologies or a public penance, just an acknowledgement, otherwise don't be surprised if some people think you're just covering your arse.

Judellie · 19/12/2024 16:40

Bigredcombine · 19/12/2024 16:04

The name calling on this thread is shameful.
It must and should be ok for someone to change their mind. Better late than never.

Plenty of women have been called names for trying to priroitise safeguarding. He'll just have to cope

MalagaNights · 19/12/2024 16:49

I havne't listened to it yet but from twiiter he seems to be saying somewhere in the interview that some poor children are born in the wrong body and they have existed for 1000s of years, and comedcians should not 'punch down' and makes jokes about trans people.

So not too much mind chnaging happening...

Mochudubh · 19/12/2024 16:59

@FriedGold32

I was just thinking this, that a lot of gay men see women as essentially pointless, except as service units.

TitusMoan · 19/12/2024 17:07

Bigredcombine · 19/12/2024 16:04

The name calling on this thread is shameful.
It must and should be ok for someone to change their mind. Better late than never.

What names has he been called?