The “women’s march” that’s all about the men.

[BackToLurk]

I couldn’t see a thread about this, but I’m just here to share how annoying it is to see a so-called women’s march so concerned with placating men. This is the march in January.

As well as the highly predictable “this is for all women” (meaning including the ones who are men) and the ‘we don’t tolerate transphobia’ (meaning any concept of sex-based oppression), the Facebook group is full of posts reassuring men that of course they’re welcome and it’s not all men and obviously “not my Nigel”. It’s infuriating. Why do people do this?

Why must being female always be viewed through the lens of oppression? Being female is no more oppressive than being male.

I was talking about women in Afghanistan, where being female is significantly more oppressive than being male.

It’s not about being oppressive it’s about being oppressed. Naming what happens is neither an acceptance nor a surrender.

Bonkers

A teacher ffs.

I bet she’s got a sideboard full of crystals

Yes, of course. Afghanistan is the literal embodiment of patriarchal oppression.

Bonkers

"At one point in history the idea of "woman" and "man" didn't even exist at all"

Shades of Sally Hines "before the enlightenment the female skeleton didn't exist"

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4270870-Before-the-Enlightenment-the-female-skeleton-didnt-exist

But being female ( pregnant/ a mother/ female athlete in single sex sports, for example) is not simply about being oppressed - unless there is actual patriarchal oppression - such as in countries where women as a sex class are denied all rights and their lives heavily circumscribed.

I think when people say that women as a sex class are oppressed they are referring, largely, to the fact that males, in general, tend to commit far more violent or sexual crimes against female people, in general; or that women as mothers suffer penalties in the workplace.

That's because 'male' and 'female' were simply realities and not conceptual ideas. All creatures recognise sex - on a practical, everyday level, even if they don't have elaborate intellectual models to describe it.

What does 'feeling internally' like a woman involve?

I agree @Shortshriftandlethal - I see it as sophistry.

What does 'feeling internally' like a woman involve?

It's so strange that in years of asking, no genderist has ever been able to explain.

Fuck knows, I haven't posted on it, I'm just there to see what nonsense they come out with.

Here are the Expectations of the group copied today. 6 hours old. Implies that opinions (beliefs?) which differ are okay. However inclusivity does not mention belief. Or age come to that. Copy and paste below.

Participation Expectations

Respect for All
Treat everyone with dignity and respect, regardless of their background, identity, or opinions. Zero tolerance of hateful or discriminatory language or behaviour.

Non-violence
Commit to peaceful actions and refrain from any participation in violence, aggression, or property damage. Our message is strongest when delivered with integrity. This includes engaging with counter-protestors.

Inclusivity
Create a safe and welcoming environment for all participants regardless of gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, or abilities.

Follow the Law
Adhere to all local laws, including permits and regulations for public gatherings. Follow directions from event organisers and law enforcement.

Civility
Engage in conversations or debates with courtesy. Focus on listening, learning, and supporting the cause. Use every debate and conversation as an opportunity to educate and be educated.

Protect the Environment
Dispose of waste responsibly and leave the march route clean. Use reusable or biodegradable materials for signs and supplies. Where waste bins are not available, please take your rubbish with you.

Safety First
Stay alert to your surroundings and follow safety guidelines provided by organisers. Assist anyone needing help and make accident/injury or illness known to organisers. Report anything suspicious or concerning to organisers/marshals/law enforcement.

Stay on Message
Represent the cause with clear, positive, and constructive messaging. Avoid promoting unrelated agendas or organisations.

By following these expectations, we can ensure a peaceful, impactful, and inclusive march that amplifies our shared vision for women’s rights.

Thank you
The UKWM Team

@everyone

This is the About page as it looks currently. (Shown in quotes)
Really mad mix. I am not going to be marching. The intersectional stuff at the bottom reads to me just as the Revolutionary Feminism did in the 1970s. (Stand with the men and fight against all the injustices that they fight against and they think matter and when those are sorted women's rights will have also been achieved). I did not buy that message then and don't buy it now. Women and girls should not have to wait and the examples given about injustice to women in Afghanistan and Iran should make it clear why waiting is a bad idea. The mention of discrimination and violence against trans women and girls (not trans men who are actual women and girls) is not well founded but comes before the more serious examples on this list. Perhaps women and girls in Afghanistan and Iran will somehow get their freedom when trans women and girls have all the rights they demand. This is so so so sad.

'Our Statement**
With Donald Trump set to return as US president in January 2025 and Nigel Farage picking up the anti-abortion mantle here in the UK, it’s time to make our voices heard.
We are marching because violence against women and girls in the UK has increased by 37% since 2018 and has now been declared a national emergency.
We are marching because abortion in England and Wales, if not carried out according to the strict requirements of the Abortion Act 1967, is technically still a criminal offence carrying a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.
We are marching because reproductive rights are being removed state by state in the US making it increasingly more difficult to access safe abortions, and where vital healthcare is needed to save a woman’s life.
We are marching because discrimination and violence against trans women and girls has increased around the world. Anti-trans rhetoric prevents women from addressing the real issues they encounter by reinforcing the gender stereotypes that have oppressed women for centuries.
We are marching because women in Afghanistan under Taliban rule have been effectively silenced by being banned from speaking in public. They are no longer allowed to access education or work and are prevented from freedom of expression.
We are marching because girls in Iran as young as 13 years old are forced into marriage, with lawmakers looking to lower the age to 9 years old. Women face restrictions on dress with severe punishment for violations, including imprisonment and up to 74 lashes.
These are just a few of the many ways misogyny and the patriarchy have affected women around the globe. We are angry, and you should be too.
We are marching on Saturday 18th January 2025 in cities across the UK in solidarity with all oppressed women worldwide. We will be raising our voices for those who can’t raise theirs. Women are not free until all women are free.
It's time to march.
Our feminism is intersectional
Inclusivity is at the core of UK Women’s March. We acknowledge how race, gender, class, sexuality, and disability intersect. Women are exposed to racism, ageism, ableism, homophobia, and transphobia, not just sexism and misogyny. This means we must acknowledge how these differences interlock for feminism to work.'

Yes, sorry, it was a rhetorical question!

How can sexism be linked with transphobia?
Sexism is someone being oppressed due to their sex, transphobia means a fear of someone who says they have a thing called gender.
One is about material reality (being) the other is an idea some people choose to believe based on outdated stereotypes.

It's hard to know whether to avoid the marches because of the bonkers pro-men stuff and stifling of debate or to support the women who are joining to march against VAWG, often for genuine, personal reasons.

I might go along to my local one with a few friends, wearing our Terfy tshirts and try to start a few conversations.

And see if they stick to polite, civil debate?

@SinnerBoy If we do decide to go along and the handmaidens try to silence us, then they'd just show themselves up and might give the ordinary women something to think about.

I can't imagine them being particularly intimidating. I don't think they'll be like the idiots who turn up to LWS.

Beliefs not belong in inclusivity? Who knows I might attend to protest for single sex spaces and see if they allow me to march with them. They need to realise that women are oppressed due to biology and I obviously need to be "educated" on the statistic that trans women face more "gender" based violence.

To me there is more sex based violence of male on female along with male on male. That is through my own reading but I might be wrong. There is still of course female on male violence, will they be including that too? They may as well and make this a people's march.

I don't deny that the trans community face aggression and violence which should never be tolerated but surely this gets highlighted during pride marches and the pride month. Why can't women / females (I hate the term ciswoman) get one march?

There was an interesting article written by a trans woman begging the far left to stop speaking for them as they were causing more issues e.g. around single sex spaces etc as most of the trans community want to respect women's rights and not take anything away. When I was a lead in this group, trans women were respectfully asking if they could attend and highlighting they understood if they couldn't.

If I were a trans woman, I certainly wouldn't want these extreme liberals speaking for me. I can imagine most were outraged during the trans rapist in a women's prison debacle and far left politicians like Sturgeon just caused a build up of more hate. There is my rant for this morning!

People's March indeed

At least that is a bit more honest 😂😂😂

Well I've been let back into the group- see how long that lasts.

I was tempted to click join group to see if they would allow me back in 😂😂😂