TERFs are not the problem

[niadainud]

AIBU to think that transwomen's beef should not be with so-called TERFs, but with men who rape women or who have sexual proclivities such as autogynaephilia?

It is not (imo) transphobic to want women-only spaces for a number of reasons, but if (some) men weren't predatory in one way or another then women would have nothing to worry about.

I realise this is a highly utopian way of looking at it, but it riles me enormously that it has somehow become socially unacceptable not to pretend a man in a wig and a dress is actually female. I was introduced to someone's "niece" recently and they had facial hair. It's just ridiculous.

I also think that "real" transwomen (i.e. those who have undergone surgery etc.) make things more difficult for themselves by adopting this very black-and-white stance. People like Blaire White are realists and seem to speak some sense about the issue but they're a tiny minority.

I believe Helleofabore was referring to your claims to work with children and young people as a counsellor?

Yes. That is indeed how the linear nature of time works - at least for me. It may not be the case for you - you may secretly be a time lord. It's ok, you don't have to disclose - I don't hold negative views toward immortal regenerating aliens.

If a person holds negative views toward a minority group with a protected characteristic then they're welcome to out themself in advance or otherwise make it clear that they aren't interested in sleeping with members of that minority group.

Don't worry, we'll stay very, very, very far away from you.

Because telling people whether they should or shouldn't choose to keep their chromosomes and medical history confidential is something that I have no fucking business doing?

As you know, no-one is advocating that you give a medical history. I'm embarrassed for you at the amount of crap you just make up.

What do you think it is about chromosomes that might be important to disclose? Can you think?

I'm sure you've given your own biology more than a passing thought in your life. If it was "just chromosomes" you wouldn't be on here.

This has horrible shades of "gay conversion" to me.

This has horrible shades of "gay conversion" to me.

Yes it does.

When butters says

If a person holds negative views toward a minority group with a protected characteristic

What they mean is if someone is not attracted to people of my sex.

This is so vile I don't even know where to start.

No. I do not discuss sex with children no matter how hard you try and make it look like I said otherwise. This is disingenious even for you.

No. I do not discuss sex with children no matter how hard you try and make it look like I said otherwise. This is disingenious even for you.

Wow.

Does that apply to any medical history?

Would you feel it's not your place to advise someone with herpes to tell prospective partners? Or to disclose their contraceptive status if not explicitly asked?

Men are not a minority group.

My standard advice to young trans people intending to go stealth is 'don't fuck bigots or those even faintly vulnerable to bigoted ideologies; they can and will send you to prison and there is legal precedent supporting them doing so' with a side order of 'you can't know if someone is a bigot until they show you. Make sure the first time they show you isn't in court'. Schrodinger's bigot is something we have to factor into our daily lives.

You didn't post this then? Sounds a lot like discussing sex with children to me.

This not you then?

Nah mate, I warn them not to fuck cis people who hate them

Or this:

So we just advise them not to let bigoted cis people fuck them as it's safer all round.

You already know the answer to that question. Obviously I would never advise witholding relevant medical information about infectious diseases, contraception or similar.

Apologies, ambiguous wording on my part there - I thought from context the meaning would be clear, since I obviously have no business speaking with children about sex?

Younger adult trans people would be more accurate.

Yes. And I expect plenty of trans people also want to know the sex of their sexual partners. Dishonest to frame this as being about 'trans' identity, when it's about sex.

On that, we agree.

Younger adult trans people would be more accurate

Hmm, reverse gear selected.

I am glad that is your answer.

It does however show that your pearl clutching "I can't advise anyone disclose their medical details" is just more manipulative emotive hyperbole. You are perfectly happy advising this when you consider it matters. You just don't think trans status should matter, and so you don't think the informed consent of people who think it does matter is worthy of respect.

Yeah fair, there are plenty of trans people with negative attitudes toward trans people or transness in general as well. Working on it, one step after the next.

Obviously I would never advise witholding relevant medical information about infectious diseases, contraception or similar.

Contraception from a person who won't disclose "their chromosomes".

No. Nothing to do with knowing or having a position on someone's gender identity. All to do with knowing their sex. Which matters to most people when it comes to sexual partner.

Yes. The (possibly apocryphal) story of the two transbians who were horrified to find they were each other's blind date springs to mind.

Actually now I think about it, I wonder if dating apps have stats on how often lesbian identifying males swipe right on other lesbian identifying males compared to swiping right on females.

Yeah, pregnancy risk is clearly not something thats worth giving any consideration.

The worrying thing is that we have seen the evidence of young people who think that a trans identity affects their ability to get pregnant or impregnate a partner.

Yes. The inconsistency is glaringly obvious. And very much a male approach I would suggest.

My standard advice to young trans people intending to go stealth is 'don't fuck bigots or those even faintly vulnerable to bigoted ideologies; they can and will send you to prison

well at least you understand it's a crime.

I don't believe that a moral society would require trans people to disclose their transition history, no.

That is not, no matter how hard you reach to rewrite what I said, the same as advocating for people to be completely irresponsible about details that should be relevant. Details about your body that your partner should probably know for safety or just basic functionality purposes, for example, are something I would advise disclosing if nothing else because you are both more likely to have a bad time if you can't clearly communicate.

One of the relevant details is that having sex while stealth puts you at the mercy of schrodinger's bigot in the eyes of the law.

Sexual orientation is not bigotry.