For Women Scotland in Supreme court - thread 2

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5182666-for-women-scotland-heading-for-supreme-court

Isn't perception discrimination when you're discriminated against because you're perceived to be some protected characteristic that you're actually not?

So if they are discriminated against for being TW and claim perception discrimination they'd then have to prove they're not one... would they not?

It seems disingenuous to rely on current numbers of GRCs when both the SNP and Labour are planning to make GRCs much easier to get. Shouldn't the judges have to consider what happens when the barriers to obtaining a GRC are reduced even further?

On BBC Politics Live yesterday the Labour MP said that Labour's plan is still to make GRCs easier to get.

Also I think Ben and Aidan missed a big chance yesterday to say that they as bearded men would be eligible for a GRC and that nobody would be checking up whether they did any body modifications or wardrobe changes. The judges likely aren't on social media and don't know what the current state of transgenderism involves - they may have in mind old school transsexuals like April Ashley who tried to "pass".

They've had a few years to work on that tbf.

There’s no way that the law makers considered the scenario of the male presenting trans woman with a GRC (therefore of the female sexgender) acting as a comparator for an actual woman who was making a claim for sex discrimination. I don’t think this had ever occurred to me before. It was such a good question.

Well, quite.

You have a piece of paper that magically ‘proves’ you to have ‘changed sex’ (a thing that we all know can’t be done, but that’s by the by) for ALL purposes - or so the Scottish Govt want to have it. You can change your birth certificate too so that it says you were born the sex you aren’t. And you don’t have to tell anyone, show anyone, in fact they’re breaking the law if they even ask you about it, let alone voice their thoughts to anyone else. We are truly through the looking-glass.

Meanwhile, a registrar accidentally wrote down a baby’s sex wrongly on their birth certificate and no, IT CANNOT BE CHANGED, apparently.

There's just been a long interview on Sky News with Susan Smith of FWS outside the court.

Sorry to be dim but how do I do place-marking please?

Before we kick off again, a quick thing from yesterday morning:

AO: FWS state the gov cannot have meant to create nonsensical outcomes. The only way for EA to do the work intended is if sex means sex.

There was a case - long back, possibly 1600s - about interpretation of unclear wording in laws. It was stated that if meaning was ambiguous, the presumption should always be that MPs were acting rationally and not attempting to legislate for the absurd or impossible. It gave an example of impossible legislation being an Act that caused a man to become a woman. My Google skills are letting me down - can anyone find the specifics?

You just did.

Posting anything on a thread means it will appear when you click the "I'm on" button.

Ah! Thanks.

Use the bookmark button to stop it at the last post you read.

You can ‘watch’ the thread by clicking on the button with a bell at the top of thread so it’s in your ‘watching’ list. Or you can post something vacuous like I did so it appears in your ‘I’m on’. The latter is considered to be lazy and bad form because it clutters up the thread. 😄

If we lose it means the judges will have clarified that any rights and protections for women under the Equality Act are unenforceable. If that's how the law stands, then it will have been made very clear that the law is absurd and unworkable, and needs to be changed.

Yes. I saw that. Quick on the trigger aren't they?

First shot at this came up with 'The end of optical lithography has been so often predicted (incorrectly) that such predictions are now a running joke among lithographers'.

Oh dear.

When you start to realise the baddies (i.e. us) are arguing more in favour of trans rights than the Scot Gov are

The petition suspension is standard. They always have a 'proposer and seconders' stage that allows a few signatures, then it goes to the committee to check it meets the criteria.

Am on tenterhooks waiting to hear what ' living as a woman' means...

Is anyone back in yet?

I think they're still looking for a working stapler.

Nothing for me. I kinda miss WFTCHTJ

And a working definition of living as a woman

😂😂😂

It's going to a be a long afternoon so I've opened not one but two bars of chocolate!

WE'RE GONNA NEED A BIGGER LUNCH!