Calling all biological - cis - women. Could we all stop raping each other please? (BBC Radio 4)

[Mmmnotsure]

BBC The World Tonight, 25/11. Second piece was on the Supreme Court appeal, For Women Scotland v The Scottish Ministers.

They had Susan Smith from For Women Scotland and Emily Chung from Out for Independence, the LGBTQ+.wing of the Scottish National Party. In answer to why FWS shouldn’t have concerns about who should access single sex spaces, Chung argued:

"The first [concern] is a practical matter, that they oppose it on the grounds of that they feel gender identity - gender recognition certificates rather - shouldn’t grant access to single sex spaces. The answer is that they don’t.

The second argument is again somewhat of a sad one, which is that there is a presumption in the For Women Scotland's argument that same sex, or single sex female spaces in particular, are free of physical and sexual violence, and sadly that’s simply not true. Sadly, biological women - cis women - can and do commit horrible acts of violence including sexual violence including rape on other biological cis women."

Presumably this is one reason why TRAs insist that the media use wrong-sex pronouns, including when reporting rape and assault cases. If you can show - or make it look - that women are (equally?) violent and commit rape and sexual assault just like men/TW, then there is no point in having single sex spaces, and no need for them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0025d5j

Well.
we CAN stop SA committed by bio men/trans women by not allowing in women only safe space.
So, 100% ban them.

The other “issue” is a matter for another day.

Emily Chung from Out for Independence, the LGBTQ+.wing of the Scottish National Party.

Because their LGBTQ+ policies have gone so well for the SNP. Just think, if Scotland had been independent all this batshit could have been ours already. Imagine, a whole tranche of potentially pro-indepedence Scottish voters sighing with relief when Westminister intervened over self-id. Foot, gun, bang.

(edit for spelling correction)

Eh?

If you aid and abet in a rape you can still be charged with rape. Joint enterprise rules?

So that's the only way a biological woman can legally be charged with rape. I think it's happened once it twice.

If that was for me - I was just pointing out how effective "Out for Independence" (et al) have been.

Yes, but if there is a joint enterprise rape in a female only space, it means that there is a man in there. It's a distraction from Emily Chung, whataboutery, when the subject is female only spaces.

I can imagine say a female prison is somewhere where there is a higher risk of female sexual abuse, I can't think of many other places.

Women's bathrooms are very dangerous places , if Emily Chung is to be believed. And as for men's , well very few people make it out of those places unscathed , if at all. A dystopian hellscape.

The trans community will just have to have their own safe toilets.
Perhaps they could secure funding from the huge pharma companies which make puberty blockers and hormones?

@AmaryllisNightAndDay to be fair it wasn't aimed at anyone! I only read the first post and my brain clammed up in refusal to entertain and of that shite 😂

I think Emily Chung's "sister" must have written her script.

I wish the presenter had asked her how someone "lives as a woman".

I wish journalists would point out a) the fact that 98% of sex crimes committed by men and b) when there's a huge conflict if interest with an interviewee. They'd do it on any other issue.

Listen ladies, get with the programme. Trans people must be represented everywhere and allowed everywhere because trans people are so marginalised and powerless compared to everyone else. Even when they're bigger and stronger and louder than everyone else in the room. And we must amplify transwomen's voices over transmen's because women are marginalised compared to men.

I have figured out intersectional feminism and seen the light!

(I'll get my coat.)

One minute, the SNP had has its aim the securing of independence; the next minute it had adopted the most ridiculous policies and youngsters in both the SNP and the Greens were lecturing oldies that we couldn't have an independent Scotland full of "bigotry"...

And despite how it turned out for the SNP and the Greens they're still lecturing the oldies.

Glad to see a thread about this! I heard it last night while packing for the long trip north today and could hardly believe what I was hearing. Annoying that the interviewer mostly let Emily burble on without challenging any of the drivel, but let's hope the listeners were framing their own questions. Quite a contrast to the articulate and well-prepared Susan Smith, who was asked questions and answered them.

If Emily believes that nobody can tell that a transwoman is male she is living in a dreamworld. Walking into a room wearing stereotypically female clothing, makeup, wig, high heels etc - all a waste of time because any woman in the room will instantly and instinctively clock the male gait, wider shoulders, narrower hips, larger hands and feet in proportion to the rest of the body, Adam's apple and (usually) greater height and more masculine bone structure in the face. That's before we even get to the possibility of a deep voice. As I've said ad infinitum, why would female humans be the only female mammals who can't tell which members of their species are male?

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous argument. Actually it's a non-argument.

I've never climbed Everest or eaten a mint choc chip Cornetto.

NB I don't know the statistics, but I'm pretty sure cases of women raping other women are few and pale into insignificance when compared with instances of rape perpetrated by men.

Yup.

Apparently, they have to wait for us all to die out before they can consider moving forward with their wonderful, shiny new Scotland.

I knew that it was bad when I emailed all my area's MSPs at the time of the Lamont amendment.

I got supportive replies from the Labour MSPs plus the Tory MSPs, no reply from Gilruth and an email from the Greens explaining why I was wrong.

Alas, seems Emily Cheung is no longer co-convener of Out for Indie.

Clips of the recording here.

https://x.com/misstofuexpress/status/1861313846918480316

'Obviously trans women can't get pregnant. But they do often have to have extensive medical interventions, so they're more likely to be sympathetic to that for women'.

You fucking what?

I believe that is the X account of Emily Cheung's wife, Sarah Cheung, who is now SNP BAME LGBTQ+ Officer. The small world of the SNP, eh?!

Not going to search for it, but years ago a poster here reported on attending an event at the Houses of Parliament - Fawcett Society? I think it was about trying to get to a position where our legislators were 50% women, 50% men. Anyway, a LibDem Baroness was asked if she would feel this aim had been achieved if the 50% women were all transwomen and shamefully she said yes.

Emily sounded pretty young. For a lot of us it becomes a lot clearer how different male and female lives are once we have children. She may not have reached that point yet. Of course, she could always try listening to other women and thinking about what they say, but she probably regards that as too dangerous, given how many older women have been deemed bigots for believing in biology.

It was, I know someone who went and they texted me in disbelief from the event.

All the others nodded along to it, Fawcett society etc, as well.

Not going down well on X, for what that's worth these days.

I agree.
That's why I said it.