The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity Part 2

[Ingenieur]

Starting a new thread in case the first fills up.

Lol A few days ago I saw a comment on a liberal sub on Reddit that said “Maybe we did steal the last election.”

Especially as this was a much, much more contentious election than the last one. It’s eyebrow raising for sure.

Agreed. There's also no excuse for promoting it in schools. Vulnerable children are conflating their teenage angst (some with autism-related puberty distress, e.g. sensory issues with breast development and periods) with a belief that it's possible to be born in the wrong body.

Acknowledging that some people believe in it is not the same thing as promoting it.

@Manxexile Where did they come from and where did they go this year?

I'm sorry, but no, within Christian philosophy, which is essentially a form of platonism, there are quite well defined definitions of what God is, what his relation is to the material world, and so on.

Yes, many people who are Christians don't get into philosophy, in the same way many people who "believe in science" couldn't tell you about the mathematics of black holes. That doesn't mean every individuals literary or imaginative ideas about them mean that science doesn't say something coherent.

I was on mix-gender sports teams when in school and never had an issue personally, and don't see a problem with mix-gender sports. In fact I strongly believe that pushes to keep women out of men's sports has come from men not wanting to compete with us.

Is Trump supposed to be the white supremacist?

I have a fair bit of non-white family and a lot of them would have voted for Trump over Harris, and while I wouldn't exactly say they like him, they don't think he's a white supremacist.

Yes, he is racist. He has a long history of documented racism, including racist comments.

He aligns himself with white supremacists like Steven Bannon and Steve Miller. It's not a reach to think he shares their beliefs.

Acknowledging that some people believe in it is not the same thing as promoting it.

I don't care that some people believe incoherent things. That's up to them, it's a free country. It doesn't mean that I have to treat them as a legitimate thing to believe.

As pp said, it's a 5 minute old belief. I'm not going to put in on the same level as more established ones.

Did you see what happened when Serena Williams played against the 203rd ranked male player?

She lost. Not a close match. The greatest female tennis player in history.

Is Trump supposed to be the white supremacist?

Not just Trump I think, many of the people voting for him in the eyes of some.

Yes, that is certainly the usual rhetoric one hears.

However, given some of the comments many progressive Americans consider bigoted, it's hard to take that kind of thing at face value.

When someone shows me who they are, I believe them.

At a certain level of sport, or really anytime you're in the top of your field (and 203rd worldwide is still the top of the field), it is as much about luck as it is about anything else.

The old story of the girl and Babe Ruth comes to mind.

When someone shows me who they are, I believe them.

Absolutely agree.

There are so many people who don't vote in the US, it's very possible there could be that kind of increased turn out.

Why would be the question.

Possibly people were more worried about Trump then? But for some reason are less so now. But I think what's more likely is those people turned out mainly against Trump and felt some kind of confidence about Biden. But they don't feel confident about Harris at all.

At a certain level of sport, or really anytime you're in the top of your field (and 203rd worldwide is still the top of the field), it is as much about luck as it is about anything else

You should read up on the match. He had a few beers and cigarettes. He was out of shape. They were young and fit. It wasn't about luck, but of course that's always the genderist line maybe try to come up with some less cliched arguments.

Why would I bother? I could produce a twenty-year long multi peer review study for you in support of my argument and it wouldn't matter to you.

You'll just say oh, bingo/cliche/whatever excuse to not critically consider other viewpoints than your own.

Possibly people were more worried about Trump then? But for some reason are less so now. But I think what's more likely is those people turned out mainly against Trump and felt some kind of confidence about Biden. But they don't feel confident about Harris at all.

Thing is, as a feminist, I agree there's probably sexism at play. Unlike Kamala Harris who I imagine thinks it's her gender identity people are judging.

What is that even supposed to mean? You think she lost because of bad luck?

She wouldn't agree with you, btw. That's why they chaallenged the #200 mean, not the # 1 man.

Oh, I don't know.

The Democrats have been very odd in choosing as their first two women to run as president, very unpopular people.

Why would I bother?

Because no one will take your comments seriously unless you do? Up to you whether you want to make any reasoned case for your views.

Yes, luck.

Googling "times women have beaten men at sports" brings up a wealth of examples.

It wasn't luck

Mmmm, no, I could be the most reasonable person on this and it wouldn't fly with you because you are entrenched in your beliefs and neither evidence nor perfectly framed arguments will sway you.

At this point your feelings matter more than hard facts. I'm centrist on this issue, and see the hardened attitudes in both camps.