The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity Part 2

[Ingenieur]

Starting a new thread in case the first fills up.

You spend an awful lot of time saying how everyone's approach is needed, but also criticising people's bluntness, which rather suggests you think the mild approach is the correct one. On that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm suggesting both approaches are needed. Blunt and mild. Each gets engagement from different people, each puts off different people. There is no "right" way.

Someone posted one of the responses to Nancy Mace on the FWR thread about the toilet proposal.
x.com/repnancymace/status/1858917861797904700

This is great. 49k likes so far. When I said I'd like to see how her "playing make-believe" approach was going, this is the kind of engagement that shows people are liking what she says. Obviously the likes are for a different post but it's just as hard-hitting from a "reality slap" perspective. She's pulling no punches.

I'm not sure where the impression is coming from that I don't appreciate this approach. Even though it's not the approach I take, I've always said how much I value this style as well.

So we should hold the door open, welcome them in and vilify anyone who says otherwise?

Equally valid and equally nonsensical.

Christian ideology is quite incoherent e.g. it's a biological impossibility for a virgin to give birth to a child.

There are a lot of examples of nasty men using whatever cover is available in order to gain some kind of sexual thrill and access to victims.

Pretty sure we re all aware of many instances of this kind of thing.

It's entirely coherent within a Christian theological framework, which has an extremely deep and sophisticated philosophical tradition that's been active for 2000 years.

Which is perhaps what a pp was trying to get at by pointing out that systems like Christianity aren't perhaps a great comparison to something like gender ideology which can't even tell us with any real authority what it thinks gender is actually rooted in or what it is.

I put it in the same box as not assuming a woman is pregnant 😅

No one can stop you perceiving anyone however you perceive them. If you're asked to please refer to someone in a certain way and you don't? I personally think it reflects on your manners, but that's just me.

I'm not sure where the impression is coming from that I don't appreciate this approach. Even though it's not the approach I take, I've always said how much I value this style as well.

You're frequently criticising it. That's where "the impression is coming from".

No one can stop you perceiving anyone however you perceive them. If you're asked to please refer to someone in a certain way and you don't? I personally think it reflects on your manners, but that's just me.

Why should I have to lie? It doesn't reflect on my manners, it reflects on your naivety.

This.

Naive to believe this. The links are clear. White supremacists saw an opportunity to court feminists and took it.

So do you not use public toilets?

Goodness, why did they have the opportunity to court feminists? What could have happened to make some left wing women think Trump was a better option?

You don't have to do anything you don't care to. If you like to be perceived as rude, that's your choice.

This started long before Trump.

The last time I was sexually harrassed in a bathroom it was by another woman. Perhaps we should only have single-stall bathrooms.

@PinkChesnut

I like to be perceived as not naive. Radical feminist lesbian activist Magdalen Berns (RIP) had a very apt saying.

"I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar"

Hope that helps.

BINGO - the old women do it too trope. Despite all statistics showing otherwise and that given 98% of sex crimes are by biological males, that segregation by sex is a very effective safeguarding measure for women and children.

Hahahaha. What do I win?

I knew we'd get to bingo.

As someone who is solidly centrist on these issues, you lose me with this behaviour and make me question your hardline stances. I start to think why can't boys compete alongside girls? Why can't trans girls compete against girls? It all seems very silly and overblown.

What is god?

There are many different answers to this. Many go round in a circle without explaining what or who god is e.g. god is in all of us, god is love, god is good, god is omnipresent. It's entirely coherent within a framework that supports the idea that god is real: if you believe in god, all these things make sense.

Just as the circular definition of gender identity is entirely coherent within a framework that supports the idea that gender identity is real. If you believe that gender identity is real, gender expression and gender affirming care make sense.

The salient point being that laws, education and healthcare shouldn't ratify any of it as real. Luckily, Christians agree (and there are church schools for those that want it ratified in education). Even more luckily, a belief in god won't lead anyone to harm themselves or others these days - unless your local church is run by the rave vicar of Sheffield, or you happen to be in Jonestown or Waco etc. Thankfully the church has left most of its extreme beliefs behind, a couple of centuries ago.

So you agree that feminists have aligned themselves with white supremacists - but of course, you’re blaming the Left? 🙄 Do feminists go around like sheep being led? Do they have no foundational backbone?

They bury the lede every time.

It's why anti-trans rhetoric fails for me. If you align with a group of people who see me as nothing more than a womb that doesn't deserve to vote or have a bank account, you lose me.

Yes, I'm blaming the left, hope that's clear @JessaWoo

They have no excuse for promoting an incoherent luxury belief that most people don't share over women's sex based rights.

This is an interesting post. I have a couple of questions:

I start to think why can't boys compete alongside girls?

Does this mean you currently think that they shouldn't? If so, why not?

Why can't trans girls compete against girls?

What's the difference between a boy competing against a girl and a transgirl competing against a girl?

Women and girls are half the population. There's no excuse for promoting an unpopular pseudoscientific belief system over female rights.