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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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9
miri1985 · 26/10/2024 20:21

Gettalife · 26/10/2024 16:37

How a jury heard that evidence and didn't convict is beyond comprehension to me.
They honestly believe that if the opportunity presented itself, as it did when he seriously assaulted his social worker, that he wouldn't do it?
Being prevented from doing something is very different to not intending to do it.

100% there is a reason that BK is segregated because BK would act on any of these things given the opportunity BK even admitted such during testimony. I feel like shaking the people on that jury.

Now BK has been taught that threatening someone is fine if you claim not to have meant it, which is in no way the legal test. In testimony admitting “I have threatened to sexually assault males since these incidents.”

I would hope the DPP appeals this but I'm fairly sure they won't

NitroNine · 26/10/2024 20:56

I’d really like to know the grounds for the judge deciding that the gardaí & DPP were wrong & the threats against the prison officer shouldn’t have been brought before a jury 🤨

None of this makes any sense!

Puppalicious · 26/10/2024 21:21

No idea how he was acquitted based on the media reports. Juries (as humans) are emotional creatures of course and one of the victims was as unsympathetic as it’s possible to be - a child killer - so it may be that influenced the verdict. The prison officer was
not of course. It’s definitely hard to understand.

JanesLittleGirl · 26/10/2024 22:34

All I can say is that I am glad that I am not one of BK's prison officers. How shat on do they feel?

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 01:11

I don’t think our media in Ireland have done good reporting on this topic in general. We need to follow the example of the UK media and have an actual public discussion rather than grudgingly report the odd story that can’t be avoided.

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 27/10/2024 05:36

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 01:11

I don’t think our media in Ireland have done good reporting on this topic in general. We need to follow the example of the UK media and have an actual public discussion rather than grudgingly report the odd story that can’t be avoided.

I'm wondering how the new Hate Crime law may impact on that?

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 27/10/2024 09:39

Yes I'm wondering that too. We could be on very shaky ground if we start to hurt feelings...

This part of a court report from The Countess is chilling. I actually have no words. Who was counsel for BK I wonder.

After the day’s evidence, Counsel for the Defense applied to have the charge lessened because it could be argued that rape would not in itself constitute serious harm. Maybe with an implement, depending on how this was used, it might be. The judge asked him if he was really asking him to accept that rape was not serious harm? It was agreed that threatening to threaten rape so you cannot have children would constitute serious harm.

Cailin66 · 27/10/2024 10:20

Signalbox · 26/10/2024 11:32

Is this guy due to be released from prison? Does anyone know the length of his original sentence?

I think it was 5 and a half years from 2022. But you don't serve a full sentence. He'll be a real danger when he's released. He's very young and very strong, with a hatred of all women.

Cailin66 · 27/10/2024 10:25

MarieDeGournay · 26/10/2024 13:30

I've posted over on Craicnet that I'm not just outraged but genuinely puzzled by the jury's decision, and I'd appreciate if somebody with legal knowledge could explain when a threat to rape or kill is not subject to legal penalty.

Is it because it was physically impossible for BK to carry out the threat? He was moved to a men's prison shortly afterwards.

But what about the fear and distress caused by such horrific and detailed threats, is that not enough for someone to be found guilty of something related to making threats?
And BK is going to be out of jail one of these years, and if I'd been the object of his hateful threats, I'd be very very worried...

I'm always loathe to comment on the outcome of trials because I wasn't in the courtroom and I didn't hear all the evidence - I did jury service myself in two countries, and I am aware of the nuances that don't make it into court reports.
But BK seems to have said yes I said all that and yes I meant it.
The jury would most likely have been fully aware of his history, there's been lots of reports in the media for the past couple of years about his original trial, the successful campaign to get him out of the women's prison etc.

I'm assuming the jury behaved fairly and honourably and acquitted BK for valid reasons. I'm just at a loss to how WTF those reasons could possibly be!

genuinely puzzled by the jury's decision, and I'd appreciate if somebody with legal knowledge could explain when a threat to rape or kill is not subject to legal penalty.

Firstly we don't know what the jury heard, it doesn't seem they were told anything about what kind of man he is, so they might have felt sorry for him. It didn't help that one of the women he threatened is also a convict, and she's in for child murder. So the jury might be swayed by that. The jury might believe Barbie when he says his threat wasn't real.

As regards legal penalty, he was charged, brought to court, case put to jury, if they have convicted him then he'd have had a legal penalty.

There is no doubt in my mind when he leaves prison he will kill a woman, in a very violent manner. His mother is presumably terrified of that date.

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 12:50

Some additional information on the trial that helps to explain the verdict.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/jury-acquits-barbie-kardashian-charges-33973404

'The jury found Kardashian “not guilty” of three counts of threatening to kill or cause serous harm to Ms Linnane, intending her to believe the threat would be carried out. It took the jury two hours and 35 minutes to reach verdicts in respect of three of the counts counts. Earlier in the trial, judge Colin Daly had directed the jury to find Kardashian “not guilty” of one of the counts against Ms Linnane.

Kardashian looked visibly surprised after the “not guilty” verdicts were read out and, addressing her barrister Andrew Sexton SC, instructed by Yvonne Quinn, BL, and solicitor Julianne Kiely, Kardashian enquired, “on all three counts?” Kardashian broadly smiled and whispered “Yes...I’m so happy”.

What this jury was not told was that Kardashian was jailed for five and half years with the final 12 months suspended in March 2023, after being convicted by a jury of seven counts of threatening to kill or cause serious harm to her mother.'

Barbie Kardashian acquitted on all charges, including alleged threats to kill

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/jury-acquits-barbie-kardashian-charges-33973404

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 27/10/2024 13:14

WTF did they think he was doing in prison?

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 14:07

The thing that terrifies me most about him is that he will quite happily tell a court in graphic detail why he wants to rape women and give them life-lasting injuries, he doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with his reasoning of wanting to punish women with rape if they annoy him in any way, but none of the jury or the judge take him seriously as a threat to women.

They hear him saying these things, they hear the graphic detail & the twisted reasoning, and they think ‘Nah, he’d never do these things he’s really thought about in graphic detail a hell of a lot’.

I swear to god, I feel like I’m living in clown world. No-one takes safeguarding seriously any more.

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 27/10/2024 14:47

Ach but nobody told them what he did to his social worker, so how were they to know he was telling the truth when he said he was a violent, abusive man?

Signalbox · 27/10/2024 15:14

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 14:07

The thing that terrifies me most about him is that he will quite happily tell a court in graphic detail why he wants to rape women and give them life-lasting injuries, he doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with his reasoning of wanting to punish women with rape if they annoy him in any way, but none of the jury or the judge take him seriously as a threat to women.

They hear him saying these things, they hear the graphic detail & the twisted reasoning, and they think ‘Nah, he’d never do these things he’s really thought about in graphic detail a hell of a lot’.

I swear to god, I feel like I’m living in clown world. No-one takes safeguarding seriously any more.

He’s like the vilest of comic book villains. It’s inconceivable that he could be out on the streets in a matter of a couple of years. Presumably it will be necessary for him to kill a woman before they lock him up for good.

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 18:32

Here’s an article discussing another horrific sexual violence case that came before the Irish courts this week:

https://gript.ie/listen-judge-going-to-work-doesnt-make-you-any-less-of-a-rapist/

…his work history was also taken into consideration. What’s that about? Is the standard of justice in Ireland really ‘Yeah, he’s a perverted monster who rapes his wife and seriously abuses his stepdaughter, but sure he’s never been shy of a day’s work.’?

Are we to take it, for example, that unemployed sadistic rapists and abusers would get longer sentences?

….It has to be said that the courts sometimes have a way of operating that to you and I may seem strange or counterintuitive, but sometimes they also operate in what can only be termed as ‘bullshit’.

That a man who unleashed a campaign of sexual torture – how else would you describe it? -on his own wife and stepdaughter should benefit in any material way from something as obtuse as his work record is beyond me.

I don’t think anyone would dare attempt to mitigate the crimes of, say, Jimmy Saville by remarking on his record of punctuality.’

Irish judges seem to have a strange reluctance to ‘ruin’ a man’s reputation over sexual assault and always seem open to character references written by friends or barristers arguing the accused does good in the community. And don’t get me started on judges taking seriously the pleas of ‘he had a tough childhood’ - lots of people have tough childhoods and don’t commit sexual or violent assault.

Listen, Judge: Going to work doesn’t make you any less of a rapist - Gript

“Tipperary man”

https://gript.ie/listen-judge-going-to-work-doesnt-make-you-any-less-of-a-rapist

SinnerBoy · 27/10/2024 18:56

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · Today 14:47

Ach but nobody told them what he did to his social worker, so how were they to know he was telling the truth when he said he was a violent, abusive man?

Well, British courts may be a bot crap on the sentencing side, but previous convictions for similar crimes may be presented to juries.

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 20:22

Laoise de Brún (from Irish gender critical group The Countess) was interviewed by Andrew Doyle regarding the Irish Hate Crime Bill and the verdict in the recent Barbie Kardashian case.

StrongFemaleCharacter · 27/10/2024 23:42

DerekFaker · 26/10/2024 09:33

Iirc he had some young female cheerleaders last time.

Yes I remember this - there was a video on Twitter of a group of teenage girls all giggling and excited waiting outside the court to meet him as if he was a pop star. And to answer the PP who asked if he looked like his mugshot - no, he didn't. He was heavily made up but not so clown-like. He stopped to talk to them and dare I say it, he seemed like a regular minor celeb greeting his fans, approachable and not threatening at all. Which is terrifying, knowing what he is capable of.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:46

Excellent article @HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott thanks for posting the link

NitroNine · 01/11/2024 10:05

Gript really are out there pulling no punches like Olympic boxers

It still makes no sense to me that the women weren’t meant to take the threats seriously - “ah sure, he can’t rape you this minute, he’ll not be brooding on it & making plans for the moment he’ll have the chance, it’s not like your man’s given every indication of being an absolute psychopath now, is it?” 🤦‍♀️

HereForTheFreeLunch · 01/11/2024 10:14

Oh my god! So now he has effectively been given a license to continue with his evil threats!

TheKeatingFive · 01/11/2024 10:55

NitroNine · 01/11/2024 10:05

Gript really are out there pulling no punches like Olympic boxers

It still makes no sense to me that the women weren’t meant to take the threats seriously - “ah sure, he can’t rape you this minute, he’ll not be brooding on it & making plans for the moment he’ll have the chance, it’s not like your man’s given every indication of being an absolute psychopath now, is it?” 🤦‍♀️

It just indicates how little women are really thought of in Irish society.

ApocalipstickNow · 01/11/2024 11:07

Kardashian looked visibly surprised after the “not guilty” verdicts were read out

Well, it’s hard not to look surprised with make up like that.

deeahgwitch · 01/11/2024 13:10

As @TheKeatingFive writes "...It just indicates how women are really thought of in Irish society."
Sad

What was the jury made up of - make / female ratio I wonder.