NHS Fife tries to silence nurse

[Hoardasurass]

So as has been mentioned on threads about the Darlington nurses a nurse is sueing NHS Fife over its trans staff policy.
The poor nurse was forced to get changed infront of a man in the female changing facilities, when she complained about it she was 1st told to change in a cupboard if she didn't like it, then they tried to bully her into swapping shifts so she didn't work with the man in question (she wouldn't), then they wanted her to move hospital (again she refused) so then they suspended her without pay for months until her solicitor got involved and now they are trying to gag her by insisting that the court case (starts in February) must be held in secret (I wonder why) and will be in crt next month asking to restrict reporting on the case.

This case is really important in Scotland because the trans staff policy that's going on trial in this case is the Scottish government's own policy used in all public sector organisations in Scotland and works on self id. So when this case is won it will finally kill the Scottish government's self id policy in all public bodies

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nhs-fife-fights-secret-hearings-33877891?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

”If Dr Upton used the changing room at different times, or changed as far away as possible, it would be harder to argue harassment by the doctor.”

As far away as possible could well be less than ten feet away.

Yes, I make that point too. It just seems to me, depending on the size of the room, the logistics imply that he had to be purposely obnoxious as well as merely male. Maybe that's why the NHS was so desperat to keep the hearings/trial on the QT.

Given that the average transwoman is easily identifiable on the radio, how on earth do they argue that it's not possible to tell? Are most men just cheerfully oblivious to sex differences (beyond boobs)?

It really is unpleasant that we even have to think about a spectrum of harassment, or disadvantage, while being in a changing room with a man.

We've all seen people say but he was just standing there, he wasn't doing anything he didn't even speak to you.

When every woman knows perfectly well that men don't have to do anything to be incredibly intimidating, a barely raised eyebrow will do it.

The nurse knowing that he knows he's in her space without her consent absolutely is harassment, whether it fits the legal definition or not.

I think there's also the fact that some (perhaps many?) women will actively support his right to be there. Being supported by women in situations like this will give the trans woman an even more inflated sense of his right to invade women's spaces, thus feeding into the fantasy role play.

It crossed my mind when I read this was that these women need to engage in some thought experiments. I imagine many women might imagine their nice, gay friend in the room, whereas what they need to imagine is their big boss, their most aggressive male colleague, or the office groper. There’s surely a massive difference in how they would feel if those different men were standing looking in the mirror at the basins in a dress when they enter the toilet with crossed legs, desperate to go.

The issue in this case, and all others like it, is that trans women will not accept "third spaces". They want access to women's spaces to validate themselves as women fully and without reservation. Nothing else is considered acceptable no matter how many actual women are made to feel uncomfortable in the process

@Kendodd no the thrust of this and the other nurses case is that male people should not be allowed in female work place changing rooms, for the reasons as described in this thread. If anyone should be offered a cupboard as a place to change away from men it ought to have been the erm man.

On this case though, I wonder how the nurse will stand (I assume it's just her not a group of other female nurses). She was not forced to share this changing room or have no changing room. She was offered another private, female only space. I think this could be a weakness.

Just to clarify, there was no third space aka cupboard offered to the female nurse. The Times journalist got it wrong, I think by mixing up the details of this case with that of the Darlington nurses. The sentence referencing a cupboard has now been removed from the article.

The judge has rejected calls for the tribunal to be held in camera , per The Telegraph

Here you go Sandwichgen

Have a look at For Women Scotland on X to find more details

See Sex Matters rather than FWS for this one, I suggest

Yes, Sex Matters have published the full court order, link is on this page:
sex-matters.org/posts/updates/edinburgh-employment-tribunal-says-no-to-trans-anonymity-order/

Well done sex matters, worth my monthly donation alone.

I cannot get my head around the mindset of this Dr. Fairly newly qualified, recently 'transitioned', new member of staff, obviously male. Pitches up to work and expects to use the female changing rooms, and expects this to go uncommented on and unchallenged.

Only a man would approach this set of circumstances with that attitude. A woman entering a scenario, where they know their presence might be unsettling to some would be looking for ways to minimize the upset. Men just assume the world bends around them.

A conversation and a request for separate changing facilities would have avoided what I suspect will be a really painful tribunal for Dr Upton, that will likely make it crystal clear and part of the legal record that the world perceives him as male, and always will.

Read the court decision on the anonymity application, Dr Upton’s alleged fragility was fucking laughable, especially his therapists report, which was full of hyperbole, and the judge set aside as no use.

I think we can safely say he “is being punished by the process”,

Newly qualified? I somehow thought hat he was an older man.

I had to have a procedure in a Fife hospital a few years ago. When she heard that I was a teacher, one of the nurses very quietly asked me what the heck was going on in Scottish schools with all the gender nonsense. I should imagine that the nurse in this case is getting a lot of moral support from her colleagues.

Men just assume the world bends around them.

This. Try walking down a reasonably busy street without stepping aside for men and see how many will walk straight into you and complain you didn’t move.

Oh, you need to play patriarchy chicken. I do this at train stations, it is joyous, particularly since I have been lifing weights, I pack more heat and less wobble.

On Christmas Eve 2023, Peggie and Dr Upton exchanged words after Peggie alleged that Upton started to undress when they were alone together in the female changing room. Upton then made an official complaint about Peggie’s behaviour, saying it was bullying and a “hate incident”.

The hospital responded by placing Peggie on special leave and then suspending her pending a disciplinary investigation into her “alleged unwanted behaviours”.

Woman forced into a position where she has to take her clothes off in front of a man, and her objection to it is the problem.

It's the very definition of gaslighting

This issue of pronouns during the tribunal has come up. It absolutely does matter whether you refer to this person as a man or a woman. We all know how perception is skewed.

Although, the desperate attempt to make it all anonymous would indicate that in this case, reality and perception is probably going to be the same.

“According to the General Medical Council (GMC), Upton graduated from the University of Dundee with a medical degree in 2021, and qualified in August 2022. The tribunal reports that Upton began publicly identifying as a woman in 2022 and started work at the Fife hospital in the A&E department in August 2023.” (Sex Matters page)