NHS Fife tries to silence nurse

[Hoardasurass]

So as has been mentioned on threads about the Darlington nurses a nurse is sueing NHS Fife over its trans staff policy.
The poor nurse was forced to get changed infront of a man in the female changing facilities, when she complained about it she was 1st told to change in a cupboard if she didn't like it, then they tried to bully her into swapping shifts so she didn't work with the man in question (she wouldn't), then they wanted her to move hospital (again she refused) so then they suspended her without pay for months until her solicitor got involved and now they are trying to gag her by insisting that the court case (starts in February) must be held in secret (I wonder why) and will be in crt next month asking to restrict reporting on the case.

This case is really important in Scotland because the trans staff policy that's going on trial in this case is the Scottish government's own policy used in all public sector organisations in Scotland and works on self id. So when this case is won it will finally kill the Scottish government's self id policy in all public bodies

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nhs-fife-fights-secret-hearings-33877891?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Yes but the law has been based on assuming they do and then saying ‘but it doesn’t matter, we can have a law that depends on if they pass’. It should have been based on assuming they don’t. That it is clear to everyone that they are men.

Exactly. It's all such half arsed "surely no one will mind" bullshit.

Surely subjecting the nurse to a disciplinary process was victimisation?

I guess it depends on what they are saying the disciplinary process was for.

FFS why is it relevant whether a bloke can pass as a woman or not? He IS a man, not a woman. Whether people can be tricked is neither here nor there!

A third space will never be acceptable to the traniban. Anyone following the story of the Hampstead swimming ponds will know there are male, female and mixed ponds but trans activism is about encroaching on the womens' space.

Exactly. As I never tire of saying, it's nothing to do with the space, it's to do with the women in the space.

The presence of women is crucial.

Which is why the perfectly reasonable option of a third space is always rejected.

Yes, not realising that you have been deceived does not make deception OK.

If we use an elderly person who has fallen for a scam as an example, them not realising the bill they paid wasn't legit doesn't mean the scammer has not committed fraud.

I think that was the point that was being made.

Which is why the perfectly reasonable option of a third space is always rejected.

That's why I want a large organisation to say, too bad, that and the men's are your options. The third space is the reasonable, proportionate action we're prepared to do.

Oops, sorry I misread and missed your ‘yes’.

Yes. It wouldn't take long for everybody to do the same. The entire issue is a headache for suppliers.

Duncan Bannatyne did it.

I'm not sure what your issue is with what I said - could you elucidate?

Unnecessarily changing right next to Nurse Peggie - rubbing her face in it, as it were - was conduct related to her gender critical beliefs and did violate her dignity and created an intimidating etc environment, therefore was harassment (IANAL).
Separately and in addition to sex discrimination.

He doesn’t need to change ‘right next to’ her. It is still harassment if he stood a few feet away with back turned.

Obviously it's much worse if a man rubs the woman's face in his exploitation of her. But even being in the same room is an exploitation.

That's the rank misogyny of the whole issue.

If he is a woman, it wouldn't matter what he was doing. He could take his clothes off, stand full frontal, even rub a bit of moisturiser on his thighs to help with the, er, chafing.

If he's a woman, he can do what the fuck every other woman does.

And a man who is quite content to violate women's boundaries is not going to remain on the sidelines. The escalation of boundary pushing is a major part of it.

NHS Fife are harassing her by requiring her to change alongside men, regardless of the behaviour of those men.

You know I really think we could do with a man on our side. An obviously butch man in a dress, offered a trans space, refusing 'how dare they I'm a women'. Then willing to take all the publicity and sue 'I demand to be with the naked women, as is my right'.
Blinding sunlight.

They already have. The problem is the first tier courts have allowed it and it is not appealed.

Yes, validation...but when women are not validating by being subservient or compliant they become antagonists, which is why it was the trans identified person who brought the initial complaint. As far as they are concerned they own womanhood too and have as much right to it as actual women. Womanhood is not the integrity of an adult human female, it is a possession to be claimed.

I'm wondering what he does to affirm his identity. Any time I've been in the A&E dept of the Vic, both male and female doctors were wearing scrubs. No dangly earrings, etc., though I do remember being surprised that some female members of staff were wearing very obvious false eyelashes - not a problem if you're in theatre, I guess.

From what I saw in the press yesterday, this bloke is middle-aged. Fortunately, I've never encountered him. (I went through a stage where I spent more time than I would have wished in that department, accompanying elderly relatives.)

"I'm wondering what he does to affirm his identity?"

Pink shoes, clumsily swings his hips when he walks, speaks in a squeaky voice.

Require others to refer to him as ‘she’ and ‘her’ and introduce him to vulnerable patients he has immense/lifeanddeath power over as ‘Beth’.

I disagree. If Dr Upton used the changing room at different times, or changed as far away as possible, it would be harder to argue harassment by the doctor. Dr Upton would simply be using the room according to (unlawful) hospital policy. Just like you should be able to openly express the belief that a work colleague is a man, but making a point of going up to them and shouting "You're a man" in their face could constitute harassment.

Also, the Act in question is the Equality Act, not the GRA. The test for exclusion of male people in the EA is exactly the same for all male people, regardless of whether they "pass" or not. The PC of GR applies to all male people who say they are women, regardless of any change to their appearance (and regardless of whether they have a GRC).

The question of whether male people with a GRC become female people for the purposes of the Equality Act is the question which is currently before the Supreme Court and hinges on the effect of their certificate, not on any changes to their appearance.

Dr Upton, as far as I am aware, has not been charged with harassment. This is an employment tribunal so the ‘person’ accused of harassment is NHS Fife. Also there was no rota set up over when Dr Upton and female nurses respectively could use the changing room so such suppositions are irrelevant.

I also don’t care if a man is standing in the furthest corner of the room as he watches me undress. It is still voyeurism.

Neither of us knows the exact claims, and my point stands.
I'm sure we both hope for a comprehensive victory for Nurse Peggie.

I also don’t care if a man is standing in the furthest corner of the room as he watches me undress. It is still voyeurism.
Who is denying that?