NHS Fife tries to silence nurse

[Hoardasurass]

So as has been mentioned on threads about the Darlington nurses a nurse is sueing NHS Fife over its trans staff policy.
The poor nurse was forced to get changed infront of a man in the female changing facilities, when she complained about it she was 1st told to change in a cupboard if she didn't like it, then they tried to bully her into swapping shifts so she didn't work with the man in question (she wouldn't), then they wanted her to move hospital (again she refused) so then they suspended her without pay for months until her solicitor got involved and now they are trying to gag her by insisting that the court case (starts in February) must be held in secret (I wonder why) and will be in crt next month asking to restrict reporting on the case.

This case is really important in Scotland because the trans staff policy that's going on trial in this case is the Scottish government's own policy used in all public sector organisations in Scotland and works on self id. So when this case is won it will finally kill the Scottish government's self id policy in all public bodies

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nhs-fife-fights-secret-hearings-33877891?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

The law is quite clear on this, as Dr Upton does not have a GRC he is both legally and biologically male as such he has no right nor the expectation of the right to use the female changing facilities (lady haldane in the fws vs scot gov appeal crt ruling).
Even if dr Upton had a GRC he could still be excluded from the female changing facilities under the single sex exemption which says that it's OK to exclude him for the privacy and dignity of women. So yes her feelings are more important than his identity/mental health and no he can't sue as he would have no grounds to do so.
As for the "person with the issue moving" normally I would agree however in the case of a man in the female changing facilities he is the one who has to move he has no right to be there in the 1st place and by allowing him to be there whilst making her move elsewhere you are illegally discriminating against the female nurse.
This is not about judgemental staff this is about a man behaving in an inappropriate manner and sexually harassing his female colleagues by using the female changing facilities.

Is this satire?

Are you laughing? 🤔

Abolish the GRC, it’s a lie and should be repealed

Yes, Abolish the GRC, it is facial and leads to men in women’s spaces.

Farcical

I just keep going back to the image of all those female members of staff waiting in the corridor, while he's in the changing room - happy as Larry.

Who obviously knows full well the effect he's having on the women.
As we know, they are the prop in the fantasy.
The other men in the changing room just don't have the same je ne sais quoi.

Bastard.

I have a bad feeling about this tribunal. I'm not as confident as I was during previous cases.

I have a bad feeling about this tribunal. I'm not as confident as I was during previous cases.

Given the previous form of the judge, I think it will go to appeal.

I'd question if a doctor who's imagining someone not interacting with him rather than - I don't know - focusing on the patients in A&E is fit to work to be honest.

If I had been embarrassed and intimidated in a state of undress by a male colleague then I would avoid the gaze too. What is more, if they specifically required eye contact after the incident I would consider it harassment because we both would know he was doing so because he knew I had been embarrassed and was getting a thrill from that.

But at that point it's just 'we're going to believe everything the man says even if there is no evidence at all that it's true and disbelieve everything the woman says even if there is evidence what she says is true'.

It's just one person's opinion about some imagined slight against another's.

And somehow it's always the male sex person who's believed and the female sex person who's disbelieved showing exactly that sex is obvious and why sex matters.

There is no reason this hospital can't have single sex and gender neutral spaces to accommodate all. If they had an anonymous survey of staff they'd find most employees want single sex.

The only way this doesn't serve everyone's needs is if it's about using unconsenting women as props to affirm or in a fetish - so the boundary transgression is the very point. And that is employer sanctioned abuse.

If I had been embarrassed and intimidated in a state of undress by a male colleague then I would avoid the gaze too. What is more, if they specifically required eye contact after the incident I would consider it harassment because we both would know he was doing so because he knew I had been embarrassed and was getting a thrill from that.

Exactly. I hope this aspect of male sexual harassment in general is going to be mentioned.

well no, because it’s not funny

What previous form does this judge have? I'm sure it's a different judge from the one originally slated to sit - they have changed cities, after all.

As for Upton's contemporaneous note making on his phone, who can do that in a busy A&E? Who should do that? Though I'm not sure why Sandie shouldn't have delegated nursing tasks to others (which Upton claims she did) but she denied. Iirc Upton said she'd delegated tasks he'd asked her to do back to him or others. It's totally acceptable for a senior nurse to get a student nurse etc to do a set of observations (for example) while she herself cannulates the patient or does some other more skilled task than basic obs-taking.

What is really shitty is Upton casting aspertions on Sandie's clinical competence. I'm sure this must be untrue as she's been nursing about 30 years. Clinical issues aren't the matter at hand, I believe he's introduced these ideas out of sheer spite and they shouldn't be permitted to stand.

Exactly. He was constantly trying to make a point; especially when he was making contemporaneous notes after each encounter.

That's Jane Russell clutching at straws, and I'm hoping that the panel will see straight through it.

Yep, just like a toddler tantrum.

I’m a bit apprehensive too about the outcome but I think Kemp has quite a good bullshit filter. We will see

Please could someone share the details as to how to dial in here

Email:

[email protected]

Media or Public Access Request (Mrs Peggie v Fife) 4104864/20/4

The twitter discussions are all either mindblown that this is a thing or hugely supportive of Peggie.

The Upton legal team have done themselves no favours by drawing attention to the fact that a woman who had been walked in on in a state of undress then avoided eye contact with the man who violated her privacy and refused to leave despite her voicing her discomfort.

The bullying tone of bringing up a nurse's code of conduct as if the requirement to treat painters kindly and with respect is a reason to demand compliance in the face of being made to feel sexually harassed in a vulnerable state is frankly unbelievable

There seem to be two Dr Uptons. (Apart from the two on the different GMC records, that is.)

One who is harmless, vulnerable and stressed at unkindnesses.

And another who makes contemporaneous notes on his colleague, insists she make eye contact, puts in a complaint that gets her suspended, and casts doubts on her professionalism. This second Dr Upton seems to be gunning for a female nurse.

Wonder which version of Dr Upton she met in the women's changing room.

Thank you @ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Is it just my imagination, or is this case getting far more publicity on BBC/press than Jo/Roz/Maya etc?

I suppose that it is quite possible that FWS(3) judgement is issued before this one. For the moment, the Haldane decision is the one that matters (if Beth has/had no GRC, Dr Upton remains a man).

I notice that the Baroness Nicholson wrote one of her splendid letters to the GMC last week. In Feb '24 it was reported that there were 77 doctors who had informed the GMC they wished to change gender on the register, just 2 of whom also had a GRC.

Regardless of the "can a biological man be in a female changing room if he feels like it?" I think the way in which the disciplinary was dragged out over more than a year will be under the spotlight and do NHS Fife no favours.

I hope the journalists stay with this case.

I think bringing up the code of conduct was a mistake because anyone who sees women as human beings deserving of human rights when hearing about all the clauses to 'treat others with respect' wonders how Dr Upton has treated SP with respect in all of this. Because he clearly hasn't.

The NHS should have single sex only and gender neutral spaces (or gender: feminine and gender: male if they want, personally couldn't care as I'm using the single sex). They have failed as an employer to meet the needs of their employees.

But failing this, if someone expresses discomfort and fear at you in their space I can say for a fact most WOMEN wouldn't be 'oh I'm going to report for bullying and get them suspended'. Most actual women with the aim to keep a collegiate workplace would try and work out a solution e.g. ok, you don't like getting undressed when I'm there, can we figure out times we can agree when we'll each be / not be there.

Of course, that kind of give and take and mutual respect doesn't work if the ENTIRE POINT is to force unconsenting women to get undressed in front of you. I.e. sexual harassment.

Let's not forget it wasn't just SP who was hanging out in the corridor waiting for Upton to leave. I wonder how long they were waiting, I'm guessing a long time....