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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

663 replies

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 09:13

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

OP posts:
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9
Kucinghitam · 09/10/2024 15:50

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 15:47

It's the fact they don't understand why talking about Doctors as a reference point to their knowledge which should be taken seriously is really not appropriate when talking to people who have direct lived experience of this in their own families.

Its like saying to a NASA rocket scientist, "yeah y'know that's all great but I watched a Professor Brian Cox documentary and I think you are wrong about physics".

Do you think pickle realises what they've said AT ALL?!

It's exactly like that, isn't it? But with a big extra Righteous dollop of Be Kind superiority.

DoreenonTill8 · 09/10/2024 15:51

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 15:47

It's the fact they don't understand why talking about Doctors as a reference point to their knowledge which should be taken seriously is really not appropriate when talking to people who have direct lived experience of this in their own families.

Its like saying to a NASA rocket scientist, "yeah y'know that's all great but I watched a Professor Brian Cox documentary and I think you are wrong about physics".

Do you think pickle realises what they've said AT ALL?!

More like 'I watched an episode of GoJetters and they made it to the moon with a rocket ship made of the tins and powered by baked beans....why can't you NASA?!

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 09/10/2024 15:53

‘Well, I’ve followed Mr Spoon to Button Moon’

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 15:57

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 09/10/2024 15:53

‘Well, I’ve followed Mr Spoon to Button Moon’

😂😍

Kalalily · 09/10/2024 16:45

I too am the mum of a 19 yr old trans identifying young adult, recently diagnosed with Autism. Thank you so much OP for this thread, I hope it can become a support thread.

It is the irreversible consequences of medical transitioning that makes this situation so terrifying. It’s all very well to say, as pretty pickle has done, that everyone should follow their own path – male living as female et cetera. But what about the kids who are neurodivergent, bullied, traumatised, who have not had a chance to form their own sense of identity because they have been caught in fight or flight since early adolescence. How is it fair, right or appropriate to allow these kids to medically transition? Possibly for all of the wrong reasons - and where are the medical professionals who should be able to step in and gently explore?
Medical care for adolescent onset GD is on a par with the post office scandal and the blood transfusion scandal. I have never felt more alone than when I started to seek help for my child when they first started to struggle.

To be honest, I was so horrified at the consequences for my child should they start medical transition, without proper exploration, that I haven’t fully considered the impact on my other children, both of whom feel as I do and worry that this new identity is a result of online influences and inflexible thinking.
This post is the first shred of hope that I have come across. Thank you, OP

CautiousLurker · 09/10/2024 16:47
Monsters Inc Hug GIF

@Kalalily

Beowulfa · 09/10/2024 16:49

90s soap Sunset Beach featured a convoluted plotline involving an evil identical twin. Perhaps there was a hospital mix-up at birth, and it was the long-lost twin of the OP's son who turned up acting strangely in a dress?

GatherlyGal · 09/10/2024 16:50

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 14:11

Threads like this are hard (won't go into why, but I'm not in a good place generally atm) but they are also useful and instructive.

Daylight and all that.

I am learning as much as I feel I can share my own insight on.

Lets be honest here. How much benefit am I going to get from a therapist who potentially is either compromised, fearful and defensive, ignorant or otherwise inexperienced on this subject?

I'm just not.

And actually I think thats useful to me to know.

What's hard here is keeping our own boundaries (or those of our kids) when everyone around you is trying to dismantle them / tell you to behave differently.

What you say about therapy is so true - there's just as much value in remembering that if you feel something is right / not right then stick with it and have courage in your own conviction.

Also some people need to develop their critical thinking skills - the "be kind" nonsense has addled brains (assisted by some tv indoctrination via BBC and Netflix).

popeydokey · 09/10/2024 16:53

By medically changing their body, aren't they very publicly announcing that they believe that there is a physically female element to being a woman? Won't the self-id advocates think this is transphobic (as they do when women say it or even hint at it)?

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2024 16:57

Beowulfa · 09/10/2024 16:49

90s soap Sunset Beach featured a convoluted plotline involving an evil identical twin. Perhaps there was a hospital mix-up at birth, and it was the long-lost twin of the OP's son who turned up acting strangely in a dress?

EastEnders spin off Redwater had Zoë's evil twin brother turn up - Luke Slater aka Dermott Dolan. Kat didn't know she'd had twins because she had been so out of it having Zoe when she was 13 (having been raped by her uncle Harry) that she passed out after Zoe was born only for Luke to pop out a few minutes later by surprise whilst Kat was unconscious. This allowed her mum Viv and Mo Harris to whisk the son off for adoption only to turn up later, whilst Zoë was raised as Kat's sister.

Cos y'know right...

Soaps are the Gospel of Transgender Reality.

Should we be quoting citations from Doctors by episode number and mins into the programme?

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:08

You see you are all making assumptions about me and assuming I have no personal experience or knowledge and I do. Doctors was just a timely watch that highlighted the harm intolerance can do - its a generalisation not life specific.

My parents divorced when I was young, are you saying they should have lived in misery together, giving me a totally wrong impression of what marriage was, to protect us. Are you saying that an adult person who decides not to have kids and the potential Grandparents are devastated, should have them, just to please the grandparents. The answer is of course not, but these decisions doesn't just affect them, it affects those around them and its only by accepting and talking things through with all stakeholders that we hopefully get through it . That is what I am saying about her son, he has a right to make his own choices and the family has to work with it. I have never said it wouldn't affect them. They need to talk to him, understand him, support him and address everyone's concerns - its a two way street. What you can't tell him, as an adult is that he can't do it! Well you can try but it won't be a good outcome.

murasaki · 09/10/2024 17:14

Two people not being happy together is as far removed from a boy thinking he can be an Edwardian woman as Mr Spoon can get to Button Moon.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 09/10/2024 17:21

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:08

You see you are all making assumptions about me and assuming I have no personal experience or knowledge and I do. Doctors was just a timely watch that highlighted the harm intolerance can do - its a generalisation not life specific.

My parents divorced when I was young, are you saying they should have lived in misery together, giving me a totally wrong impression of what marriage was, to protect us. Are you saying that an adult person who decides not to have kids and the potential Grandparents are devastated, should have them, just to please the grandparents. The answer is of course not, but these decisions doesn't just affect them, it affects those around them and its only by accepting and talking things through with all stakeholders that we hopefully get through it . That is what I am saying about her son, he has a right to make his own choices and the family has to work with it. I have never said it wouldn't affect them. They need to talk to him, understand him, support him and address everyone's concerns - its a two way street. What you can't tell him, as an adult is that he can't do it! Well you can try but it won't be a good outcome.

They can't tell him what he can't do, and he can't tell them what not to feel about what he does. He can't expect them to suddenly pretend he's changed sex. and if they are angry, hurt, upset, afraid for him, he can't expect them to feel it's all fine. He needs to listen to their concerns as well. Well, he could insist everyone sees things his way and run off if they don't, but that wont end well for him. He is actually the one with most to lose if he tries. Parents and siblings are valuable. Even - especially! - if you have autism and you honestly believe that a trans identity is right for you.

Even if it's all ticketyboo on Doctors (bless me - is that still running!) - real life isn't like that. Tolerance is needed from him as well. For his own sake.

Delphinium20 · 09/10/2024 17:25

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:08

You see you are all making assumptions about me and assuming I have no personal experience or knowledge and I do. Doctors was just a timely watch that highlighted the harm intolerance can do - its a generalisation not life specific.

My parents divorced when I was young, are you saying they should have lived in misery together, giving me a totally wrong impression of what marriage was, to protect us. Are you saying that an adult person who decides not to have kids and the potential Grandparents are devastated, should have them, just to please the grandparents. The answer is of course not, but these decisions doesn't just affect them, it affects those around them and its only by accepting and talking things through with all stakeholders that we hopefully get through it . That is what I am saying about her son, he has a right to make his own choices and the family has to work with it. I have never said it wouldn't affect them. They need to talk to him, understand him, support him and address everyone's concerns - its a two way street. What you can't tell him, as an adult is that he can't do it! Well you can try but it won't be a good outcome.

Does he? He lives, ostensibly for free, in their home. His university is paid for by them or because of them. I would argue that they very well can set some boundaries like, "Not in house. You can't wear that around your sisters and your mother as it's insulting. No porn in our house, etc." He can't just 'live his life' when he's still dependent upon the shelter and finances of his parents.

murasaki · 09/10/2024 17:25

Yes, if he does decide to stick with it, which personally I doubt, but that's neither here nor there, he'd he better off not alienating his siblings along the way so should be sensitive to that. Their truth is more true than his, and even if he doesn't think that, he would be wise not to push them too far.

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:37

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 09/10/2024 17:21

They can't tell him what he can't do, and he can't tell them what not to feel about what he does. He can't expect them to suddenly pretend he's changed sex. and if they are angry, hurt, upset, afraid for him, he can't expect them to feel it's all fine. He needs to listen to their concerns as well. Well, he could insist everyone sees things his way and run off if they don't, but that wont end well for him. He is actually the one with most to lose if he tries. Parents and siblings are valuable. Even - especially! - if you have autism and you honestly believe that a trans identity is right for you.

Even if it's all ticketyboo on Doctors (bless me - is that still running!) - real life isn't like that. Tolerance is needed from him as well. For his own sake.

Edited

And I don't deny, and never have, any of that and that is why I said they needed to "address everyones concerns".

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 09/10/2024 17:39

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:37

And I don't deny, and never have, any of that and that is why I said they needed to "address everyones concerns".

I am glad you see that. It's not just on everyone else - he needs to address at least some of their concerns too.

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:43

Delphinium20 · 09/10/2024 17:25

Does he? He lives, ostensibly for free, in their home. His university is paid for by them or because of them. I would argue that they very well can set some boundaries like, "Not in house. You can't wear that around your sisters and your mother as it's insulting. No porn in our house, etc." He can't just 'live his life' when he's still dependent upon the shelter and finances of his parents.

Would you seriously do that to your child - surely accommodations should be made on both sides?

Sorry mate, can't be gay/lesbian/trans whilst dependent on me - well , yes, technically speaking you can say that but it doesn't bode well for a future relationship does it, sacrifice him for the wellbeing of everyone else??? It will take work but surely after the shock has worn off, there will be a lot of adjusting and it will need mutual support and understanding.

SisterofMCW · 09/10/2024 17:46

he has a right to make his own choices and the family has to work with it. I have never said it wouldn't affect them. They need to talk to him, understand him, support him and address everyone's concerns - its a two way street.

Although you end by saying it is a two way street doesn't this sound very one way? You say: the family have to work with it, talk to him, fully understand him, support him and address everyone's concerns. It will affect them! And be careful not to tell him what he can't do-- there be dragons.

This does sound like all of the effort toward making the son's choices work are carried by the other family members. There don't seem to be any expectations on the son to be respectful of his family. We're back at "this one has a right to make his own choices, and these ones are support-family for him and the choices he makes" like we have all been tricked into believing.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 17:46

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 09/10/2024 15:53

‘Well, I’ve followed Mr Spoon to Button Moon’

Genuinely weeping here Grin

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2024 17:48

Sorry mate, can't be gay/lesbian/trans whilst dependent on me

One of these things is not like the other two.

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:50

SisterofMCW · 09/10/2024 17:46

he has a right to make his own choices and the family has to work with it. I have never said it wouldn't affect them. They need to talk to him, understand him, support him and address everyone's concerns - its a two way street.

Although you end by saying it is a two way street doesn't this sound very one way? You say: the family have to work with it, talk to him, fully understand him, support him and address everyone's concerns. It will affect them! And be careful not to tell him what he can't do-- there be dragons.

This does sound like all of the effort toward making the son's choices work are carried by the other family members. There don't seem to be any expectations on the son to be respectful of his family. We're back at "this one has a right to make his own choices, and these ones are support-family for him and the choices he makes" like we have all been tricked into believing.

Look, if the family dynamics change due to his life choices, then yes, there needs to be a dialogue and an understanding on both sides with accommodations otherwise, are you saying he has to be a clone of them or he will spoil things?

DoreenonTill8 · 09/10/2024 17:55

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:50

Look, if the family dynamics change due to his life choices, then yes, there needs to be a dialogue and an understanding on both sides with accommodations otherwise, are you saying he has to be a clone of them or he will spoil things?

Sounds more like you're saying they have to go along with him or they'll spoil things?

Delphinium20 · 09/10/2024 17:56

PrettyPickle · 09/10/2024 17:43

Would you seriously do that to your child - surely accommodations should be made on both sides?

Sorry mate, can't be gay/lesbian/trans whilst dependent on me - well , yes, technically speaking you can say that but it doesn't bode well for a future relationship does it, sacrifice him for the wellbeing of everyone else??? It will take work but surely after the shock has worn off, there will be a lot of adjusting and it will need mutual support and understanding.

  1. My DD is Bi, and I support her fully right now as she's at college and doesn't work full-time. I could care less if she dates women or men (her last gf was quite lovely and we missed her after they broke up)
  2. Her DGM is a lesbian and is fully supported and loved by our family. DGM finds the TQ insulting and is, frankly, grossed out by the fetish sexuality the males of the TQ exhibit.
  3. If any of my DC showed up like OP's son, we most certainly would lay down some house rules, as we value feminism and we expect respect.
  4. Our house, our money, our rules. No accommodations for outrageous behavior. We've set rules about drugs use and parties in our home, for example. Frankly, we're seen as the more relaxed parents than most of our DC's peers.
  5. Not only have DH and decided that we would not use specialty pronouns or agree to name changes (it's insulting, IMO, as we lovingly chose family names for our DC), but our broader family are in agreement. This wider family agreement has been in place now for about 5 years as a way to protect our DN who was veering into genderlalalland...my DSis and BIL requested and we all agreed (we have a big family too). This has worked, btw, DN is no longer brainwashed...she's not exactly peaked, but she's maturing, finally.
  6. Our family values do not include gender identity beliefs.
Balloonhearts · 09/10/2024 17:57

I think I'd point out that he is no Lily Savage, he looks and sounds ridiculous and tell him to get a fucking grip. People can't change sex just because people on the Internet say they can. Get him off the bloody Internet. As much as you can anyway, I appreciate its harder with older teens.

Just refuse to go along with it. Let his siblings argue it out with him, they've not yet boarded the crazy train, hopefully peer pressure will prevail. If he's known for years then he's lived years without dressing up like a stripper called Edith and can continue to do so.

As for his mental health, well that horse has bolted and crossed county lines by now.

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