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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

663 replies

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 09:13

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

OP posts:
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TransSister · 08/10/2024 13:08

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2024 12:37

What do your teens think about their uncle @TransSister?

Before he came out, they knew I was pretty terfy. I studied and worked in a male dominated industry, approached with humour, getting the job done, being optimistic.
I've always been very women's rights, gay friends, lesbian friends so they have that back drop. But I've never liked drag (woman face) , burlesque (too pub lunchtime stripper).
I was also very strong on ',Pink Stinks' toy campaign, not stereotyping roles or interests. I'm also very proud of giving birth, telling them it's truely the most amazing physical thing I have ever done but it's part of my amazing life - other paths are equally amazing and all inevitably involve compromise.

An earlier poster talked about the waves of #bekind that flooded schools, they got caught up with that. To not use they/them would be social suicide so we did talk a lot about how like at work sometimes you just keep powering through.

By the time my brother came out, I think they were both tired of the whole school trans & pronoun thing and they could see how selfish he was. He also has gone down the little Britain version. It was a lot to take in when your first grandparent had died.
His now ex-girlfriend had done all the birthday heavy lifting so that stopped and he has never bothered with them as individuals. My mum stepped up to buy Xmas presents 'from him' last year which was totally obvious.

I think they feel he is a fraud, he was already bottom of the list in the event of an emergency. And my mum's #bekind it's family rings really hollow when friends, people in our community and other relatives have a much deeper, consistent understanding of them, their growth and their future dreams.
Old beer bloated middle aged people are never a good look so when my mum referred to his brave, stunning efforts they teenage rolled their eyes.

Datun · 08/10/2024 13:28

TransSister · 08/10/2024 13:08

Before he came out, they knew I was pretty terfy. I studied and worked in a male dominated industry, approached with humour, getting the job done, being optimistic.
I've always been very women's rights, gay friends, lesbian friends so they have that back drop. But I've never liked drag (woman face) , burlesque (too pub lunchtime stripper).
I was also very strong on ',Pink Stinks' toy campaign, not stereotyping roles or interests. I'm also very proud of giving birth, telling them it's truely the most amazing physical thing I have ever done but it's part of my amazing life - other paths are equally amazing and all inevitably involve compromise.

An earlier poster talked about the waves of #bekind that flooded schools, they got caught up with that. To not use they/them would be social suicide so we did talk a lot about how like at work sometimes you just keep powering through.

By the time my brother came out, I think they were both tired of the whole school trans & pronoun thing and they could see how selfish he was. He also has gone down the little Britain version. It was a lot to take in when your first grandparent had died.
His now ex-girlfriend had done all the birthday heavy lifting so that stopped and he has never bothered with them as individuals. My mum stepped up to buy Xmas presents 'from him' last year which was totally obvious.

I think they feel he is a fraud, he was already bottom of the list in the event of an emergency. And my mum's #bekind it's family rings really hollow when friends, people in our community and other relatives have a much deeper, consistent understanding of them, their growth and their future dreams.
Old beer bloated middle aged people are never a good look so when my mum referred to his brave, stunning efforts they teenage rolled their eyes.

Very descriptive and articulate.

I'm thinking about some of the middle-aged men in my family, and if they did it.

I honestly don't think I'd have the words.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2024 13:29

No, quite @Datun

CowboyJoanna · 08/10/2024 16:17

TeenToTwenties · 08/10/2024 10:50

How is that helpful?

What did this say Grin

SeptimusSheep · 08/10/2024 16:58

It was an unjustifiably rude comment about the OP's teenage son, Cowboy.

nosmartphone · 08/10/2024 17:06

The more I read of this the more I think..

Too much internet, grooming and hanging about with the wrong people. I honestly would not entertain this in the slightest and actually think adults that do are the dangerous ones. It's not normal and we shouldn't ever be saying it is. It's a cry for mental health support by vulnerable (often autistic) individuals.

Shame on everyone who does 'support' this. You're not helping.

I shaved my head age 13 because I wanted to a boy. Thank Christ my mum told me in no uncertain terms that was impossible and to frankly deal with it, deal with puperty, deal with being a woman. Can you imagine the untold damage if she'd have welcomed by new 'boy' name with open arms? The embarrassment years down the line of remembering that time I'd simply got a bit lost and a responsible adult willingly helped me instead of saying no. We all need to do better.

This is simply not normal. In any way shape or form.

SophiaCohle · 08/10/2024 17:41

CautiousLurker · 08/10/2024 10:11

@RedToothBrush thank you for your post at 8.35 yesterday. I really appreciate the sharing. It makes me feel a little more confident that making sure my younger son’s needs were prioritised was the right move for us as a family.

At the time we did sense that DD felt that DS was the ‘favourite’ and that there was sibling rivalry involved and, on a subconscious level, a desire to dislodge her brother. There were eventually quite a few family rows where we pointed out that his needs had always been secondary to hers (sitting in the car for 90-120mins both ends of the day to drive her to the single sex private school she wanted, rather thenca the coed one 4miles away; the inability for him to attend any after school clubs/have play dates for the same reason). One day I just snapped and said that anyone looking in from the outside would assume she was the favourite as the entire effing household revolved around her for nearly a decade. Privately we always reassured him, privately we told him how much we loved him and that her needs didn’t trump his, that he was allowed to feel angry, that if he felt anxious/sad he must some to us. But we nonetheless missed his autism until he was 15, missed his heightened levels of anxiety for years before seeking treatment, and didn’t step in soon enough to avoid a minor disaster with his GCSEs because everyone was telling us DD had decided to end her life before her 18th birthday so we remained on suicide watch 24/7 for years.

We now actively and explicitly rank his needs equal to hers - she knows that whatever she needs and asks for will only be provided if it does not conflict with his needs, or our own. I could kick myself for not doing this sooner. Ironically, DS is happier, has experienced much less anxiety/fewer acute migraines over the last year… and DD has come to understand that she operates within a family where all 4 parties’ needs have to be weighted. Her desisting began around the time this came to a head. My DD is a good, loving (vulnerable and impressionable) kid, but her dad had a lifelong debilitating diagnosis coupled with cancerous polyps, my MH was so acutely eroding that we discussed my moving out, and my DS just soldiered on not wanting to make waves.

Somewhere along the line she realised she had effectively been terrorising us and that despite this we had stuck by her. She finally realised that though we set no store by the trans stuff we nonetheless unconditionally loved her - AND her brother. There’s been sea change in her behaviour, MH, physical health, and she is now forward looking to uni and her dream career albeit understanding that she might want/need to live at home during her degree and for a while afterwards until she feels well enough to go solo.

I’ve lain awake at night feeling like shit for not meeting my son’s needs quickly enough but he is, without doubt, the most kind, caring and loving boy. Experiencing all this seems to have made him more compassionate and selfless than many boys his own age, though I worry he will struggle to set his boundaries in relationships when he is older and feel strong enough to communicate and advocate for his own needs. We’re working on that, though.

Somewhere along the line she realised she had effectively been terrorising us and that despite this we had stuck by her. She finally realised that though we set no store by the trans stuff we nonetheless unconditionally loved her

This is what we all hope for and is so cheering to read.

I second your call for a new subforum btw. It would be almost the only place on the internet of it's kind. Considering how democratising the internet is said to be, it's shocking to realise how controversial and inflammatory this topic seems to be.

SophiaCohle · 08/10/2024 17:49

SisterofMCW · 08/10/2024 11:58

I have name changed because I give away a lot of details. This thread, OMG. It is very refreshing reading this thread (have not caught up yet by a long way) and seeing the clear understanding of the cult driven events of the 'coming out', their love-bombing friends, the inhuman manipulation of a vulnerable person (how I see it, at least).

In his mid fifties my brother decided or was convinced that his mental illness was caused by repressed womanhood. I lived in another country by then so was cushioned a bit (I admit when I heard I laughed out loud-- not in a mean way at all, it was entirely involuntary because of the absurdity...him? what?) but I have visited and spoken to him since of course. I am open to my friends where I now live about my brother in a realist way, not as a way to mock him, but to explain my family situation and to be clear I will not say she or sister because I believe he has been abused and swallowed a lie. He had a breakdown, he was taken advantage of when in a very vulnerable state, and sadly since embracing what he thinks of as womanhood his mental instability has not improved; I am unhappy this is now his life but it is his life.

In my life I grew up with a brother and that has not changed by him putting on a pencil skirt and fuck-me shoes to announce his new identity, out of the blue, to my poor elderly mother.

Earlier this year I was dining with a dear friend who is aware of my family details and when speaking about my brother asked "Oh, and how is she now?"

It was immediate, I was so floored I could not stop the tears. My friend wants to respect the pronoun of someone she has never met, will never meet, who lives thousands of miles away, and at the same time bolster the cult, the very abusers of him by affirming his claimed gender. With no consideration that doing so frames all of my history, my childhood memories as lies.

My friend knew my feelings on the matter but I am just the sibling not the very important stunning and brave who should be centered above all others. My whole concept of my family and my memories of family life just blew up kaboom with that one word and my friend has no understanding of this.

I know I have not explained this well, I feel I am awkward in describing this and I should have been more 'careful' in my wording, also the thread is long so the conversation may have moved on. It is hard for me to fathom my own feelings in this yet they are very strong and my friend's use of that word was so very hurtful. She wants to call my brother 'she' because she considers herself a good person. I could weep, again.

Earlier this year I was dining with a dear friend who is aware of my family details and when speaking about my brother asked "Oh, and how is she now?"

It was immediate, I was so floored I could not stop the tears. My friend wants to respect the pronoun of someone she has never met, will never meet, who lives thousands of miles away, and at the same time bolster the cult, the very abusers of him by affirming his claimed gender. With no consideration that doing so frames all of my history, my childhood memories as lies.

I feel so sorry for you. I relate to this, having had it done to me a few times by well-meaning friends in relation to my DS. I've told them in no uncertain terms that when they're talking to me they don't rewrite the past in this way.

My other children have swallowed the kool aid themselves sadly, having been at school during the Peak Trans years (Mermaids etc coming in to do workshops we knew nothing about) but even with them I can't bring myself to use the new name when we talk about the past. It's no different from Stalinisation imo.

Flowers for you

SophiaCohle · 08/10/2024 17:57

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/10/2024 10:55

Being a trans ally, or even being transgender, is no protection from estrangement. My DS's sister is very sympathetic to trans people, but her relationship with her trans-identified brother is as broken as mine is with my son. This has come out of my son's behaviour towards the rest of his family, which started out reasonable but has become controlling as he has got sucked deeper into a particular trans culture. My daughter uses his preferred name and pronouns but that cuts no ice. Family relationships are far more complex than some like to think.

Someone IRL drew my attention to this today. Like much of the writing about trans it's been practically self-edited out of existence, but the comments section is interesting and completely confirms what you're saying here. The comment from a post-op trans older brother (iirc) was particularly eye-popping. It made me feel better to know that as families we are commonly being set up to fail.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/trans-kids-reject-family-not-other-way-around/

SisterofMCW · 08/10/2024 18:18

Thank you for understanding, Sophia. I surprised myself with my instant tears, it was completely out of my control-- so immediately and deeply felt. I guess I was heartbroken that this dear friend could care so much for an idea ("let's be kind to these women who were men poor dears") that I wasn't counted as fully human. I was a prop who must help fake the past for the benefit of this man she has never met.

GatherlyGal · 08/10/2024 18:33

nosmartphone · 08/10/2024 17:06

The more I read of this the more I think..

Too much internet, grooming and hanging about with the wrong people. I honestly would not entertain this in the slightest and actually think adults that do are the dangerous ones. It's not normal and we shouldn't ever be saying it is. It's a cry for mental health support by vulnerable (often autistic) individuals.

Shame on everyone who does 'support' this. You're not helping.

I shaved my head age 13 because I wanted to a boy. Thank Christ my mum told me in no uncertain terms that was impossible and to frankly deal with it, deal with puperty, deal with being a woman. Can you imagine the untold damage if she'd have welcomed by new 'boy' name with open arms? The embarrassment years down the line of remembering that time I'd simply got a bit lost and a responsible adult willingly helped me instead of saying no. We all need to do better.

This is simply not normal. In any way shape or form.

Agree but in our case CAMHS crisis swept in and told us in no uncertain terms we had to accept the new name and identity.

And then when the referral to the Tavistock came around (which happened without my consent) they accepted DD's suggestion that having found out about trans on the internet she realised she needed puberty blockers. No examination at all just blind acceptance.

CatFeet · 08/10/2024 18:48

Regarding the question of why the bizarre get-up as opposed to what women actually wear day-to-day (generally speaking of course), I don’t think the aim with this is to look like your average woman. The goal is to act out the fantasy persona they have created for themselves, like being their own personal dress-up doll. I see this sort of mindset when playing a certain type of MMO video game for example, the amount of males playing female characters is overwhelming. Can’t say the same for the reverse. And of course they are all very particular with the outfits they dress their female selves as.

SquirrelSoShiny · 08/10/2024 18:50

CatFeet · 08/10/2024 18:48

Regarding the question of why the bizarre get-up as opposed to what women actually wear day-to-day (generally speaking of course), I don’t think the aim with this is to look like your average woman. The goal is to act out the fantasy persona they have created for themselves, like being their own personal dress-up doll. I see this sort of mindset when playing a certain type of MMO video game for example, the amount of males playing female characters is overwhelming. Can’t say the same for the reverse. And of course they are all very particular with the outfits they dress their female selves as.

Yes I've observed this too. Avatar culture has a lot to answer for.

Runor · 08/10/2024 18:55

OMG Sophia, the comments under that article.There are so many people going through this. It is heartbreaking. And it is being hidden. That is such an important article, and this is such an important thread
❤️ to everyone who is living this

YesterdaysFuture · 08/10/2024 19:03

I listened to a podcast (may have been a Triggernometry episode) about a mother whose son was at university and suddenly advised he was trans. There was a concern that he was going to get hormones etc. And then suddenly one day he snapped out of when he saw some mockery of it online (about boys wanting to be anime catgirls). There does seem to be this trend of people instantly announcing trans status and then instantly disowning.

I would worry that as he is autistic he has been led down this path at university, I think it's very important that he gets in grounding in reality outside of the university campus.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/10/2024 19:06

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2024 17:32

It clearly hits a nerve doesn't it.

The narrative that it families that don't do enough and reject their trans family member is one which underpins the victimhood.

The fact that advice being given out by trans charities a few years ago, said that trans people frequently reject their family because they remind them of the past and may seek to lash out at family due to unresolved anger and frustration as part of the reality of never being able to change sex isn't so palatable.

Neither is the fact the Beaumont Society did a survey amongst their own members which found abnormally high levels of psychological distress in the wives of men who transitioned. This is a group who are focused on supporting trans people not partners. The families of those who transition are silent because of stigma, because they feel guilty, because they worry about judgement and being shamed, because they are struggling with their own psychological needs (hey let's not forget high rates of autism amongst trans people and what that also might mean for their family members cos hey genetics). But we aren't allowed to talk about the impact on families.

We also aren't allowed to talk about identity formation and identity being multi faceted and relational and family identity being one of the most important to people, particularly children.

And we are supposed to ignore the militancy and the cultlike behaviour imposed on others in these demands placed on families.

Yeah. Let's all play happy families and pretend we are all ok when we really really aren't.

Yes, yes, yes and yes!

SophiaCohle · 08/10/2024 19:06

Runor · 08/10/2024 18:55

OMG Sophia, the comments under that article.There are so many people going through this. It is heartbreaking. And it is being hidden. That is such an important article, and this is such an important thread
❤️ to everyone who is living this

Yes, so many it's scary! When you consider what a tiny percentage of people living through this will have seen that page, and what a tiny percentage of those will have signed up and gathered their thoughts enough to post a comment.

I mentioned upthread that it's as if the transitioning child/YA is following a script, like the cheating spouse "script" but as I read those comments, so many of them used phrases I've heard my own child coming out with ("I no longer feel safe around you" to name just one) and I begin to wonder if there's actually a literal script or handbook doing the rounds online. I would love to get hold of it if so.

RedToothBrush · 08/10/2024 19:55

Runor · 08/10/2024 18:55

OMG Sophia, the comments under that article.There are so many people going through this. It is heartbreaking. And it is being hidden. That is such an important article, and this is such an important thread
❤️ to everyone who is living this

The comments under the article are really important and sadly don't surprise me in the slightest.

Those who have actively encouraged alienation and made anything less than capitulation (and I use the word deliberately) are not just unethical but evil.

They've deliberately come between parent and child and suggested that parents can not possibly be acting in the child's interests if they disagree.

That's a huge safeguarding fail.

How many teens or young people in their early twenties are still incredibly naive about life and prone to making mistakes. Parents are there to try and be the voice of reason, but reason is villified.

It makes me again.

MN said my deleted post contained too many negative things about trans people and their intentions. MN don't get It. They don't get there's a lot of very vulnerable and disfunctional people who are identifying as trans and quite frankly need help. And certainly dont need cheerleaders saying they can do no wrong.

All humans are flawed. Trans people are not a magic group who are somehow above terrible behaviour. Indeed the prevalence of comorbidity in this group makes them more likely to demonstrate antisocial behaviour - if only by virtue of the high numbers of autistic people who struggle with normal socialisation and social skills!

We are actively failing young trans identifying kids by NOT recognising this and how it impacts on others, particularly close family members.

This isn't about rejection. It's about trying to cope with individuals with significant and complex needs.

That's why I draw the parallel with anorexia.

Fast tracking to the Tavistock with an attitude of affirmation only borders on criminal negligence in my honest opinion.

Having read another thread and how at least 5000 US clinic have had gender affirming surgery is appalling.

I know where the right side of history is. It's strange to see my thoughts and feelings echoing out there with such common themes too.

An old skool transsexual Rose of Dawn made the observation that they struggle to relate to this new wave who all share the same interests and all have the same politics and dissent within the community is stamped on. It's a very useful observation - this would not be the case in a spontaneously occuring phenomena. The drone like behaviour can only be indicative of socialised patterns or social contagion. You don't get 200 people in a room who are doctors, or all having depression or all from Kent, or all having had cancer who have this level of homogenous political thought.

People who have particular vulnerabilities and a certain need in their life at certain key moments are prone to being more vulnerable to cults and cultlike behaviour.

If we lose sight of this we fail to see what's happening at all or how we can (or indeed are powerless to) help.

Parents need doctors to be doctors not political activists. Ethical treatment ALWAYS includes robust challenges to the idea that there is a one fit only treatment for all patients. This isn't the case for anything else - even if you break you bloody arm!

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/10/2024 20:06

PrettyPickle · 07/10/2024 18:23

Why is it sexist? We raise children to be what we hope will be the best version of themselves, not our version of who they should be. If he wants to explore this route, he needs to be able to talk about it, Mum clearly doesn't understand so she wants to talk about it as its all new to her but the family can be supportive.

@RedToothBrush & @Chersfrozenface- it might be the current womans fashion to dress like the Kardashians or Cardy B - its not my style, I find my own, in the same way that trans do. I don't want to be a Goth, Emo or Steampunk, it doesn't mean they can't express their style how they want. It also took me a while to experiment with makeup etc, its a learning curve and one her son has only just embarked upon - patience and support is what is called for.

If only it was a matter of fashion or being determinedly unfashionable. But it isn't.

There is the claim of being a woman. There is the demand, sometimes coercive, for everyone to agree with this claim, even if only by implication through the use of "preferred" pronouns and a new name. And there is the implied acceptance of a medical pathway. Few parents or close siblings can view that as positive without buying in completely to a trans identity worldview. For those of us who can't, whose understanding of sex and gender is different, it is extraordinarily difficult, and it is extremely unhelpful to have our feelings dismissed as unimportant and our worldview dismissed as bigoted.

If my son was just wearing dresses and glasses his girlfriend clearly chose, I would not be estranged from him. It is the demands that everyone must do as we are told, and the assumption that disagreement equals hatred, that have torn our family apart. My daughter is a trans ally, but is also estranged from her brother!

lunarosa · 08/10/2024 20:39

@RedToothBrush The everyone thinking the same way/social contagion idea you've cited reminds me of the dark side of body positivity, where you cannot think differently and any mention of health/exercise/losing weight can be seen as a rejection. Body positivity is another online area where people feel marginalised and want to belong to something.

Autumnleavesareslippery · 08/10/2024 20:40

SisterofMCW · 08/10/2024 11:58

I have name changed because I give away a lot of details. This thread, OMG. It is very refreshing reading this thread (have not caught up yet by a long way) and seeing the clear understanding of the cult driven events of the 'coming out', their love-bombing friends, the inhuman manipulation of a vulnerable person (how I see it, at least).

In his mid fifties my brother decided or was convinced that his mental illness was caused by repressed womanhood. I lived in another country by then so was cushioned a bit (I admit when I heard I laughed out loud-- not in a mean way at all, it was entirely involuntary because of the absurdity...him? what?) but I have visited and spoken to him since of course. I am open to my friends where I now live about my brother in a realist way, not as a way to mock him, but to explain my family situation and to be clear I will not say she or sister because I believe he has been abused and swallowed a lie. He had a breakdown, he was taken advantage of when in a very vulnerable state, and sadly since embracing what he thinks of as womanhood his mental instability has not improved; I am unhappy this is now his life but it is his life.

In my life I grew up with a brother and that has not changed by him putting on a pencil skirt and fuck-me shoes to announce his new identity, out of the blue, to my poor elderly mother.

Earlier this year I was dining with a dear friend who is aware of my family details and when speaking about my brother asked "Oh, and how is she now?"

It was immediate, I was so floored I could not stop the tears. My friend wants to respect the pronoun of someone she has never met, will never meet, who lives thousands of miles away, and at the same time bolster the cult, the very abusers of him by affirming his claimed gender. With no consideration that doing so frames all of my history, my childhood memories as lies.

My friend knew my feelings on the matter but I am just the sibling not the very important stunning and brave who should be centered above all others. My whole concept of my family and my memories of family life just blew up kaboom with that one word and my friend has no understanding of this.

I know I have not explained this well, I feel I am awkward in describing this and I should have been more 'careful' in my wording, also the thread is long so the conversation may have moved on. It is hard for me to fathom my own feelings in this yet they are very strong and my friend's use of that word was so very hurtful. She wants to call my brother 'she' because she considers herself a good person. I could weep, again.

I felt this so much thank you. I was reflecting earlier again today that many of my friends and colleagues are so quick to be accepting and kind but that's because it's easy when you're not affected by it. I've always said I had no issue with what anyone wore until it happened in my house and I realised it wasn't about the clothes at all, but everything that had led to it and what it was symbolising. If I tell anyone about this and they tell me to be wholly supportive I will ask them how they would feel in the same situation for everything you've just described.

OP posts:
PrettyPickle · 08/10/2024 20:50

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/10/2024 20:06

If only it was a matter of fashion or being determinedly unfashionable. But it isn't.

There is the claim of being a woman. There is the demand, sometimes coercive, for everyone to agree with this claim, even if only by implication through the use of "preferred" pronouns and a new name. And there is the implied acceptance of a medical pathway. Few parents or close siblings can view that as positive without buying in completely to a trans identity worldview. For those of us who can't, whose understanding of sex and gender is different, it is extraordinarily difficult, and it is extremely unhelpful to have our feelings dismissed as unimportant and our worldview dismissed as bigoted.

If my son was just wearing dresses and glasses his girlfriend clearly chose, I would not be estranged from him. It is the demands that everyone must do as we are told, and the assumption that disagreement equals hatred, that have torn our family apart. My daughter is a trans ally, but is also estranged from her brother!

I'm not dismissing your views, I'm just saying that everyone has a right to live their lives and just because it does not conform to your societal expectations does not mean it has to be dismissed.

And just because your son is trans, it does not preclude the possibility that he may have other personality traits that exacerbates the situation i.e. narcissism /selfishness or maybe he is just fighting for the right to be who he wants to be - I don't know.

You are using your personal experience to dismiss the OPs sons choice. Is that fair? You are doing to him what you say has been done to you???

Autumnleavesareslippery · 08/10/2024 20:58

PrettyPickle · 08/10/2024 20:50

I'm not dismissing your views, I'm just saying that everyone has a right to live their lives and just because it does not conform to your societal expectations does not mean it has to be dismissed.

And just because your son is trans, it does not preclude the possibility that he may have other personality traits that exacerbates the situation i.e. narcissism /selfishness or maybe he is just fighting for the right to be who he wants to be - I don't know.

You are using your personal experience to dismiss the OPs sons choice. Is that fair? You are doing to him what you say has been done to you???

Edited

If he was wearing typical 19 year old 'girl' clothing (of which there is a wide range) and had attempted make up that just looked a bit inexperienced I don't think we all would have felt such a range of emotions. It was straight out of little Britain - any 19 year old girl would have been ridiculed for looking like that but more than that, how did his choice reflect what a woman is? Delicate, hand waving, quiet soft gentle voice... it was all a caricature of woman. We all had about 10% of the shocked reaction to his text declaring his new identity and new name compared to this.

OP posts:
PrettyPickle · 08/10/2024 21:04

Autumnleavesareslippery · 08/10/2024 20:58

If he was wearing typical 19 year old 'girl' clothing (of which there is a wide range) and had attempted make up that just looked a bit inexperienced I don't think we all would have felt such a range of emotions. It was straight out of little Britain - any 19 year old girl would have been ridiculed for looking like that but more than that, how did his choice reflect what a woman is? Delicate, hand waving, quiet soft gentle voice... it was all a caricature of woman. We all had about 10% of the shocked reaction to his text declaring his new identity and new name compared to this.

I think you need to take a break, think about it more once you have calmed down. You are clearly angry and that is not going to help. Advice was asked for and given, sorry if you don't like it, but there are lots of other responses and I am sure someone else will say what you want them to say.

I wish you all well, I'm signing off following this post.