How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

[Autumnleavesareslippery]

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

I guess there's also an element of your parental desire to tell your kid if they are doing something ludicrous because for their own sake you want to protect them!

That's an element that I would rein in. Autistic or not he's 19 which is the right age to make a tit of himself and learn from it without his parents chipping in.

My DC experimented for a while with doing "the voice", started after someone did a double take when DC spoke, and following online videos (anything and everything is on Youtube somewhere!) DC seems to have dropped it now.

If it were me I’d stop worrying about what others think

I try not to. Already had lots of practice, what with DC having autism.

Support them, take them shopping and help them find their style.

DC has never wanted to shop for clothes. Didn't before, doesn't now. "Transition" is not a personality transplant. Most of DC's outer clothes are gifts and underclothes are ordered online.

Talk to them about being in women only spaces and encourage them to use gender neutral toilets.

You reckon? 19 year olds are not known for their positive response to parental lectures or to being told by Mum what toilet to use.

Take yourself out of it, don’t mention you don’t like the name.

Yes, that's wise.

How much do you want a relationship with your child vs how much do you want to be right?

I'm firmly on the "relationship with child" side but OP has her other children to consider as well.

No. It's a parent's job to parent. Very often that means saying no, guiding children away from the wrong path.

True, but the job at 19 is different from the job at 9. The scope to "guide" is limited when you are "parenting" an adult.

Somewhere along the line she realised she had effectively been terrorising us and that despite this we had stuck by her. She finally realised that though we set no store by the trans stuff we nonetheless unconditionally loved her - AND her brother. There’s been sea change in her behaviour, MH, physical health, and she is now forward looking to uni and her dream career albeit understanding that she might want/need to live at home during her degree and for a while afterwards until she feels well enough to go solo.

That's really encouraging to hear, and that your son's needs are being met as well.

Apologies meant to quote you @CautiousLurker

Thank you for that amazing honest and insightful post.

It is so so moving and informative to read your posts, @RedToothBrush . I feel furious on your behalf and I regret that I focussed in my earlier post so much on my son (identifying for a while as trans, eventually discovered to be in the grip of psychosis) rather than his sibling (which was the essence of the OP's concerns). Of course the whole arc of my son's illness over many years was incredibly challenging for his sibling in lots of ways. But I can see how much more challenging your sibling experience was, because of the immense pressures involved in being expected to affirm.
In the event, my son's trans identification didn't impact on his sibling, but I can well see how it would have done if the situation hadn't evolved along a different trajectory.
While my son was experiencing himself as trans, he very insistently asked me to purchase online hormones for him (it is too complicated for me to explain why -- the demand was a consequence of his being in some ways massively articulate and informed but in other ways knocked over by the limitations imposed by his not-yet-diagnosed psychosis).
During his earlier teens, he had always been massively rigid when he had demands that I did not meet. Meltdowns, confrontations, to the point of physically hassling me blocking me from leaving his presence. So I was desperately apprehensive about what the consequences would be of my refusing to buy online hormones. I even went to Relate to have some counselling about it. In the event, his psychosis shaped his actions more than his autism did, and he isolated himself completely, didn't behave confrontationally. But the fear of confrontation dominated my life for a month or so.

Reflecting on what I say above about similarities with anorexia (funny how it now seems to be coming out that girls with autism are much more likely than their peers to become anorexic...) I looked up to see whether there was any advice for parents to help siblings.

The first hit I found was this
https://www.oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/camhs/carers/ed/parents-supporting-siblings/
It's NHS guidance for Oxford. I've C+P because I think it's really interesting to this discussion as a whole. I've need read this nor looked it up before and I find it particularly interesting given what I've already posted on this thread:

Advice for parents supporting siblings

Eating disorders can lead to huge changes within the family and affect day to day life for everyone. Meal times can become tense and ‘normal’ family activities such as trips out or holidays may be cancelled or become less enjoyable.

Supporting siblings
Parents may understandably direct a lot of their time and attention to the child with the eating disorder. Often siblings describe experiencing a wide range of feelings including confusion, anger, guilt, jealousy and worry. It is important to acknowledge that siblings may be facing the stresses of school friendships and finding their own identity, as well as coping with the illness of their brother or sister.

Siblings play an important role in the lives of those with an eating disorder and often have a part in the recovery process. Family based treatment will generally involve siblings, whether that is within individual family appointments or multi-family workshops where several families join together. Siblings can contribute in different ways to their brother or sister’s recovery including providing friendship, support, a sense of normality and being models of normal, relaxed eating.

It is important that siblings are supported during what can be a difficult time. We have put together a few top tips for helping to support a sibling of someone with an eating disorder. We have also developed a section for siblings on how to support their brother or sister with an eating disorder – you may want to recommend they take a look.

Top tips for parents and other caregivers
1 Share what you know about eating disorders with siblings. Provide them with age-appropriate information on the eating disorder diagnosis and treatment. Give them the opportunity to ask questions, you may not be able to answer all of them, that’s OK. Having an understanding of what is happening to their brother or sister and why they may be acting the way they are can help them to cope with what is happening and reduce any blame siblings may feel.

2 Remind siblings that their brother or sister is being supported by you and a professional care team. Siblings may try to take on extra responsibility for caring for their brother or sister and this can cause siblings to feel under pressure and may lead to unnecessary anxiety. Let them know that what their sibling needs most is their brother or sister to act as normally as possible.

3 Ensure you make time to spend one-to-one quality time with your other children away from the eating disorder and focus solely on them and what’s happening in their lives.

4 Spend time together with the whole family away from the eating disorder, this may be difficult but taking ‘time out’ as a family can be really beneficial. This may be playing a board game or watching a film together.

5 Talk with siblings about how they are feeling, both about the eating disorder and their life in general. Often siblings will try to hide their feelings from their parents due to fear of burdening them. Let them know it’s ok and normal to feel angry, worried, sad or resentful in this situation.

6 Encourage siblings to speak to someone they trust about how they are feeling. That may be a close friend, someone from school or a family friend. They will be experiencing a lot of different emotions and it can be a very confusing time, it is important they have someone who they can confide in. Siblings may experience anxiety or other mental health difficulties which may need professional support, if you feel this is the case, speak to your GP about what support services they or school might be able to offer.

7 Siblings may be invited to attend appointments with CAMHS. Discuss this with the sibling; let them know it can be a good opportunity for them to learn about the eating disorder and what treatment and support is being offered to their brother or sister.

8 Some siblings may not want to know about the eating disorder or be involved in treatment; this can be a normal response. It is important to be sensitive to this, however continue to ‘listen out’ for any signs of curiosity.

9 Encourage siblings as best you can to continue to attend social groups/after school clubs. It is important that they continue to live as ‘normally’ as possible and have time away from the eating disorder to recharge.

10 Acknowledge that family life has changed and that life at home may be feeling very difficult. Let them know that although you may be spending a lot of time with their brother/sister that you still love them just as much.

11 Take care of yourself! Ensure that you have someone who you can speak to; children are able to pick up on stress in the family and allowing yourself ‘down time’ can help to reduce burn out that can affect the whole family.

Now I don't think it's all transferable but I do think there's a lot there of use. I also think it's significant that it explicitly says " It is important to acknowledge that siblings may be facing the stresses of school friendships and finding their own identity, as well as coping with the illness of their brother or sister." And that it states that some siblings will be offered CAHMS support by virtue of the impact of having a sibling who is anorexic, showing the degree of strain it can place on the family.

We are starting to see acknowledgement, thanks to CASS, that young people who identify as trans are often people with complex mental health needs - and the NHS in the above guidance acknowledges that siblings with mental health related needs can also need support.

We also have some data to suggest that anorexia rates have dropped as rates of trans identifying children (particularly girls) has risen. Given we also have the above mentioned link with autism there's everything to suggest they are actually one and the same cohort just manifesting in a slightly different way.

The mere existence of this document makes me raise eyebrows about why there isn't similar - which includes not wishing to affirm, in line with CASS and WORIADS developments - for parents with children who identify as trans and their siblings.

There is a massive gap here.

Wonderful post at 10.11, @CautiousLurker . Thanks so much for that honesty and insight. xx

Wow.

I hadn't quite anticipated getting this and the other responses in a similar vein on this thread.

Why have we had this conversation before on MN of all places over the years?!

We've had so many repetitive conversations about flaming toilets and how awful you are if you don't affirm and yet I don't think we've ever really got around to this one to this extent.

It really makes you think and wonder why.

Last night's deletion made me wobble and I nearly didn't double down on trying to repeat what I'd said, but I am really glad I did now. I just felt it was really important.

From various responses I think this is the tip of the iceberg in recognising 'The Grenade Effect' that's essential for all parties within a family.

Affirmation is not a neutral act.

How is that helpful?

Jesus Christ @WanOvaryKenobi

Not acceptable.

Why have we [not] had this conversation before on MN of all places over the years?!

Agree wholeheartedly, Redtoothbrush. It is almost like a Gestalt switch. Regarding the suggestions in a recent Site Stuff thread about possible new or name-changed topics for support in relation to gender issues, I think that what we need is a topic called something like "Families of gender-questioning adolescents". That would give more space for the issues to be discussed supportively, with due regards for how the situation affects the whole family, and how it can be a manifestation of autism, mental health problems and so on. @kellymumsnet

The evidence that such a topic would accumulate would be so so revealing of the unmet sibling needs, similar to the needs that are acknowledged in that piece about sibling anorexia support

Being a trans ally, or even being transgender, is no protection from estrangement. My DS's sister is very sympathetic to trans people, but her relationship with her trans-identified brother is as broken as mine is with my son. This has come out of my son's behaviour towards the rest of his family, which started out reasonable but has become controlling as he has got sucked deeper into a particular trans culture. My daughter uses his preferred name and pronouns but that cuts no ice. Family relationships are far more complex than some like to think.

I think that what we need is a topic called something like "Families of gender-questioning adolescents".

That's a really good idea, or even just a series of long running threads like the Trans Widows threads.

Fucksake 🙄

Being a trans ally, or even being transgender, is no protection from estrangement. My DS's sister is very sympathetic to trans people, but her relationship with her trans-identified brother is as broken as mine is with my son. This has come out of my son's behaviour towards the rest of his family, which started out reasonable but has become controlling as he has got sucked deeper into a particular trans culture. My daughter uses his preferred name and pronouns but that cuts no ice. Family relationships are far more complex than some like to think.

Also from what I've seen trans subreddits etc often promote estrangement from the "cis" like a coercively controlling partner would "your parents don't understand you, your "cis" friends don't understand you"

The wisdom in your posts should be saved and shared somewhere that other people can access it permanently, it's such important information and a really valuable perspective.

@Autumnleavesareslippery
@RedToothBrush and others - am so grateful that we have inadvertently come across this topic via the brave and honest OP.

And yes, I think it would be very helpful and even empowering to have a space where we can explore the impact on the entire family. It’s been truly cathartic to whisper my maternal guilt with respect to my DS in this thread (am feeling a bit tearful now) because as parents we kind of have to suck it up, but the siblings of these kids are so marginalised and forgotten. Where is the support for them in schools that push total acceptance of trans identifying adolescents?

Before the GCSE debacle DS had been plotting his escape from it all, and we’d supported it realising how hard it’s been for him to live with all this going on. In all honesty, it wasn’t so bad, 8 passes at 5/6 when he’d been predicted 8/9s and planned on med school, but meant he lost his place at a boarding school he’d fallen in love with. Our GP neighbours have given advice on alternate routes and offered references for graduate programmes if he still feels he’s missed out… but what’s been going on has clearly had a huge impact on him and potentially limited his options in life as a result of our not stepping up sooner.

I wish I’d had a space where people were shouting ‘your other children are just as important and just because they aren’t suicidally ideating doesn’t mean they aren’t in distress’… I might have tuned in sooner. DS will be fine. We’ll find a path so that whatever he wants to do is supported, but the final straw for us was when DD confessed that the fact he wanted to go to med school made her feel small and a failure and that she was relieved that path wasn’t open to him any more. I maintained a poker face, understood that what she was trying to say was that she feared that the arty degrees at non-Russell Group Unis would be perceived by others as a failure/less than what he may have gone on to achieve, but I was devastated as her perspective. It took her a few days of watching him cry his heart out and our fumbling to get him into the same local tech college as her, with none of his friends along side him, to realise how deeply unfair that comment was.

She may be 19, but she’s about 14 in emotional maturity. I have to keep reminding myself as I build higher and stronger defences around my DS.

Why I don't agree with the above deliberately controversial and inflammatory comment above, I DO think there is merit to pondering about militant transactivism and its rise coinciding with the rise of incelism and extreme graphic content. We've all side that side of it and how it involves threats and abuse towards women.
We also know that numerous celebrity trans women have admitted to stealing their sisters underwear. Twitter is choc full of it. Just take a peak at JK Rowlings feed. There is, unfortunately, a degree of cross over between the two ideologically. If we don't talk about this, we also potentially are missing yet another significant point.

My own experience with the element of sibling rivalry and competition does make me wonder if there is something rooted in this too. I find it fascinating that two posters have mentioned how they know someone who has transitioned and picked a name very close to their sisters. And there's been a couple of comments about golden children or percieved golden children.

If we ARE going to have this conversation properly, we do perhaps need to touch on this, and if you have a son being particularly hardline and militant how you actually deal with that, particularly if you also have daughters. Sibling abuse is a subject that is so very rarely talked about but we know does exist.

And once again, we have the narrative of the 'lovely wouldn't hurt a fly, everyone loves them trans identifying child' which is totally at odds with the University Mob Mentality which has harassed attempts to speak out about issues and led to actual real life court cases.

What DO you do, if your son come home from University to his teenage younger sister and he's acting in the way thats been accepted on university campuses??!

And as just noted, we also have elements which are similar to coercive control in terms of trying to force family members into going along with it all.

Parents need to be able to talk about this as a potential concern.

None of this is pleasant or particularly palatable, but I do think that there's enough evidence available to say that actually we should perhaps have this is our radars.

Those uni men screaming at women trying to hold a peaceful meeting have parents somewhere. Are we supposed to believe that their parents are on board with that or are happy about their behaviour? Are we supposed to believe they all have healthy relationships with their siblings? Are we buying into the idea that men that behave like that may have been 'unfairly' alienated by family?

This is a complex subject and I get fed up of the policing in terms of it being 'transphobic' or 'too negative to trans people' and not being allowed to raise this as a point that might be impacting some families in a way thats really not happily ever after and isn't rooted in prejudice.

The IS a militant and cultlike problem around transactivism and transidentification.

How DO you handle it if you feel your child is caught up in that but has their own issues you feel leaves them also vulnerable in their own right? Theres absoluetely nothing out there and there is a social pressure to still just tolerate it despite all of the warning signs that are present.

I have name changed because I give away a lot of details. This thread, OMG. It is very refreshing reading this thread (have not caught up yet by a long way) and seeing the clear understanding of the cult driven events of the 'coming out', their love-bombing friends, the inhuman manipulation of a vulnerable person (how I see it, at least).

In his mid fifties my brother decided or was convinced that his mental illness was caused by repressed womanhood. I lived in another country by then so was cushioned a bit (I admit when I heard I laughed out loud-- not in a mean way at all, it was entirely involuntary because of the absurdity...him? what?) but I have visited and spoken to him since of course. I am open to my friends where I now live about my brother in a realist way, not as a way to mock him, but to explain my family situation and to be clear I will not say she or sister because I believe he has been abused and swallowed a lie. He had a breakdown, he was taken advantage of when in a very vulnerable state, and sadly since embracing what he thinks of as womanhood his mental instability has not improved; I am unhappy this is now his life but it is his life.

In my life I grew up with a brother and that has not changed by him putting on a pencil skirt and fuck-me shoes to announce his new identity, out of the blue, to my poor elderly mother.

Earlier this year I was dining with a dear friend who is aware of my family details and when speaking about my brother asked "Oh, and how is she now?"

It was immediate, I was so floored I could not stop the tears. My friend wants to respect the pronoun of someone she has never met, will never meet, who lives thousands of miles away, and at the same time bolster the cult, the very abusers of him by affirming his claimed gender. With no consideration that doing so frames all of my history, my childhood memories as lies.

My friend knew my feelings on the matter but I am just the sibling not the very important stunning and brave who should be centered above all others. My whole concept of my family and my memories of family life just blew up kaboom with that one word and my friend has no understanding of this.

I know I have not explained this well, I feel I am awkward in describing this and I should have been more 'careful' in my wording, also the thread is long so the conversation may have moved on. It is hard for me to fathom my own feelings in this yet they are very strong and my friend's use of that word was so very hurtful. She wants to call my brother 'she' because she considers herself a good person. I could weep, again.

SisterofMCW

@SisterofMCW sending a hug. 🫂

Hopefully with spaces like this and work of groups like the TransWidows, people will start considering siblings. Think they are the one group in all this that is truly marginalised, invisible and not deemed to ‘exist’.

There's clearly a few of us @SisterofMCW on the middle aged trans sibling bench with elderly mothers (my brother dropped his bomb 48 hours after my dad died).

I also have teenagers, so a bit of a window into that world but I think my middle aged brother journey is different to that of my DD's lesbian friend who is heading to transman territory rather than the glorious 90s role models of KD Lang, etc

What do your teens think about their uncle @TransSister?