Heartstopper season 3: feminists wanting single-sex spaces are transphobic

[HelenaRavenclaw]

And there we go again...perhaps it comes as no surprise since this show featured a male student with long hair and artistic skills being allowed to go to an all-girls school in the first place.

In the new Season 3, "she" does a radio interview where the interviewer asks her about her views on the trans debate and her thoughts on a feminist who spoke up for single-sex spaces and said gender-neutral toilets increased the risk of sexual harassment. The stock answers followed: there is no "debate", trans people are human, the feminist was "transphobic". Later, this trans-identified male is shown feeling depressed as "she" scrolls through news about NHS policies on single-sex services, etc.

These scenes were not even in the original Heartstopper comics. They were clearly added just for the show for "TERF-trashing" purposes. It should be noted that the trans-identifying male had the right to be upset that "she" was being asked about topics unrelated to her artwork (she was wrongly given the prior impression that this would be an art-related interview). But to use an upset teenager as a mouthpiece to denigrate feminists who stand up for girls' rights to single sex spaces, on a Netflix show with a huge following, is disgusting. I hope sensible parents who watch the show with their children will point out how misogynistic and dangerous such blanket "no debate" statements are.

It's especially sad as the main Nick/Charlie storyline is sweet and lovely to watch, but all this trans nonsense (plus a new side story of a lesbian girl declaring herself nonbinary with "they/them" pronouns) makes the show so ridiculous. It's scary to think of all the kids who will watch this and be indoctrinated by gender ideology, if they haven't already.

Yes the actress who plays Darcy (the lesbian who has proclaimed herself a nonbinary "they/them") actually has gone further and identifies as a man now with "he/him" pronouns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizzy_Edgell#Personal_life

I'd never heard of Heart Stopper before, but at Pride this year there was a Heart Stopper pop up signing - at which there were huge queues. My brother took his 16 year old son who's gay - because he, apparently, loves it.

Ive watched it and I dont think it is as clear cut as its being presented here...

In the scene with Elle, she is obviously uncomfortable and says things that a teenager might but it isn't portrayed as her speaking truth as an "oracle" or as a lesson, in fact she wants to get out of there and is really upset about being asked those questions. The lesson (to me) seemed to be about having these kind of difficult conversations without the other person being aware or prepared? and also the notion that people MUST talk about their sexuality/orientation.... the whole point wa that she was there to talk in a different capacity? It seemed to me that the point of the storyline was to show that people are more than their labels? i think thats a decent message - gay/lesbian/bi/trans people are people with multi facets?

and with the pronouns of Darcy, even in the conversation with the other characters they talk about "not making big decisions" and just "living and having fun" without labelling themselves
I thought that storyline was handled really well actually?

I really feel as though single sex bathrooms are necessary as gender neutral ones can be unsafe for women and if we’re looking at statistics, many women have been sexually assaulted or harassed by men, and they won’t want to use bathrooms where men will be, so removing single sex cubicles is really selfish. I think there’s room for both, there should be single sex cubicles and a gender neutral one. Why take away when you can add? There’s no need to remove and take things when we can have both. Why should we inconvenience the majority of people who want single sex cubicles in favour of the few who want gn ones? I think everyone deserves to feel comfortable in public spaces so taking away single sex cubicles would ruin that n be rather unfair!

Just in case you didn't know you can login to Netflix via Web page (not app) and block specific titles for each profile. I am blocking programs like this as a personal choice as a parent. So they don't need to be subject to the Netflix algorithm if you don't want that.

Just in case you didn't know you can login to Netflix via Web page (not app) and block specific titles for each profile. I am blocking programs like this as a personal choice as a parent. So they don't need to be subject to the Netflix algorithm if you don't want that.

That's good to know!

Certainly is. Thank you @GiantPigeon

I'm still completely torn between banning it (good news that I can do it at source if I need to) or waiting to see what happens and then, if she does watch it, either watching it with her or watching it separately and using it as a springboard for conversations. I'm erring on the latter at the moment.

If she starts watching it I will definitely bring up a conversation in advance about the Darlington nurses and how unfortunately TRAs are trying to get people to think that anyone wanting single sex spaces in the NHS is somehow wishing harm on trans(-identified people). Another example of this is the recent update that I only just saw today on the Roisin Murphy thread re the Sheffield DJ who has had his gig cancelled under the "safe spaces" policy of a bar. His crime? Attending a LWS event where mums and grandmothers were discussing the needs for single sex spaces/sports and the safeguarding of gender questioning children etc. His open letter explaining why that's complete bollocks is so well written.

Apologies for the slightly oblique angle to this post but I saw this on Olivia Coleman taking a break for season 3:

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/heartstopper-olivia-colman-season-3-missing-explained/

She's quoted as saying that series 1 and 2 were one of the most beautiful things she's ever been part of. Fair enough. Strip away the fanfic-porn- inspired stuff and trans rights activism, there is a genuinely lovely storyline about Nick and Charlie's growing relationship in those series.

What's perhaps more interesting is who might whisper in her ear while she's taking the break. "Scheduling conflicts" might be true, but equally, this reason certainly lends itself to a bit of probing to see if there's anything more to it. If lots of people ask her in lots of different ways, she might find her eyes get prised open. Perhaps she's even already preparing the reverse ferret manoeuvre and is just setting out her stall of credibility in readiness. Come on Olivia.... 💪🤞, it's much sunnier over on this side of the bridge ☀️ Obviously there's plenty of shit to see as well, like the realisation that you've helped champion a massive medical scandal that is harming tens of thousands of people 😢 But it's still better to cross the bridge than dig your heels in and rant like you're David Tennant.

Just watched this scene. I thought it was very well handled - clearly a teenager out of their depth being interrogated on a subject without warning, and a good illustration of the media stoking the 'gender wars'.

Which episode is it in? Given the way it's described in the OP, I'd be very surprised if that was my takeaway.

I'm going to try and find a way to watch it without having the series appearing on my own profile as a glaring advert to my children when we sometimes watch things together.

Ep.6

Does this suit?

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/22205

Oooooh! Thank you!

And thank you @yoozer16427942 for confirming the episode.

Ah.... thank you BBC... 🤦‍♀️

I knew I could rely on you to create a news story to nudge young people towards TV programmes like Heartstopper:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1e8q8p9ye8o

So if I'm understanding this news story probably, there is a giraffe in a zoo. The giraffe was used in one episode of Heartstopper.

I'm sure it's just coincidence that the headline has repositioned this mundane story as a future star and that the story is an advert for a) Netflix b) the new series of Heartstopper and c) Whipsnade zoo (so that is can make money of more "stars in the making".

My daughters both read BBC news every day, so they'll possibly see or have already seen this article. TBF they'll be doing well to miss Heartstopper stuff in general as it's being promoted everywhere ATM (I guess it's been allocated a hefty budget for this). Luckily my daughters often choose TV shows together, although not always. Hopefully if my eldest (autistic) suggests it to her sister, she'll get the response that "urgh, no. It's what the furries watch". I've been listening to them chatting in the car about "the furries" in relation to Roblox recently and it's clear that the pair of them are on the same page when it comes to something being not quite right there. But that's a whole other subject (Roblox games and furries) so I'll avoid the temptation to derail on to it!

@BonfireLady

Someone posted a concerning thread about Roblox the other day.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5183500-roblox-warning

Thank you. I'll take a look through that thread 👍

Whilst I agree it was portrayed as a teen out of their depth, its not an OK thing to be said on a tv show aimed at teens.

They could have had her say it was a nuanced issue. She's a smart enough character.

It was an irresponsible statement. The character may not have had a choice, but the writers did.

How about actually having a trans character support safe, same sex spaces for women. Plenty do. Plenty are not so narcissistic as to think because they identify a certain way, others have to agree and give up their hard fought for safe spaces for them.

reading this with interest. does not seem to be aging well. My kid, partly trans identified, loves heartsotopper.

It's great to bring this thread back to life again now that the NHS Fife case is in full swing. There's some interesting food for thought within it.

Thank you for doing so. I hope your child is doing ok with whatever they are currently exploring emotionally 💐

I haven't read through the thread again but this comment caught my eye, which was the last one before the thread took a pause (italics are mine):

How about actually having a trans character support safe, same sex spaces for women. Plenty do. Plenty are not so narcissistic as to think because they identify a certain way, others have to agree and give up their hard fought for safe spaces for them.

Indeed. Thankfully the legal aspect of this is now being tested on a very public stage in court, narcissistic display included.

If you want narcissism, there's this current TV programme with a trans teenager (played by a 24-year-old male).

DT and a Waterloo Road storyline | Mumsnet

The trans character is really upset about his dying grandmother who has dementia. Not because of her dementia or because she's dying, but because she 'dead names' him.

I much prefer the Home Life of Our Own Dear BonfireLady to some twee TRA teen stuff like this 'Heartstoppers' thingy
In fact, if you want to make a whole series of posts about your family and their ethical and moral development, I'd binge-read that!

❤️❤️❤️❤️

I had to scroll up then to remind myself of what I'd written on this thread. I remembered being very invested in it because of how the subject of gender identity has been playing out in our house over the last 2.5+ years, how I'd completely fallen for the Be Kind aspect of Heartstoppers in the past and how angry I now felt that all of our emotions are being manipulated by storylines like this.

I had remembered the NHS bit of this thread. At how angry I felt about the snide references to it all by the Heartstoppers character. At the time the thread was created, not as many people were aware of the Darlington nurses as will now be aware of the NHS Fife situation - and by aware, I mean seeing through it, for what it really is. It really does seem to be breaking through into the press enough for people to be talking about it more confidently IRL too and joining the dots.

Every time we get this type of sunlight coming in, I feel slightly less worried about my daughter's future - but it's still something that really scares me because there are so many influences in her life that are pulling her towards believing that she's in the wrong body and that this is why she's uncomfortable during puberty - the BBC, "trusted" adults at her school (and how this links to the way that gender identity is managed within the school), social media etc etc.

I know there are others on this board whose daughters (and sons) have already taken irrerversible steps along a medical pathway 😢 This medical scandal has done so much damage to children, young adults and their families.