Why is it seen as acceptable for a person be born the wrong sex but not the wrong ethnicity?

[goldtinged]

I saw a somewhat recent article about Rachel Dolezal, the caucasian American woman who identifies as a black woman, and it made me wonder. Why is this clearly wrong but it is (largely) socially acceptable for a man to identify as a woman? She says she has always felt she was a black person from a young age, and she was denounced for this. But if you denounce a man for saying he identifies as a woman, you are a bigot?

Sorry if this is a thick question, I really don’t understand why one is wrong and the other isn’t (I know it is wrong to GC feminists but I mean widely speaking it isn’t seen as wrong). I understand why it is wrong to pretend to be a black person, just in case that isn’t clear.

However, a man can identify as a woman, despite having no lived experience of being a woman - because a womans experience wouldnt be traumatic and thus similar to the already lived experience as a man.

If a woman's experience is the same as a man's, what's the point of identifying as the opposite sex?

@DoIEver
Do you think women have an exclusive veto on the definition of womenhood?

That's a strangely worded question, but if women don't have a 'veto on the definition of womanhood', then the alternative must be that men can mansplain to us what being a woman is. Surely that's not what you're suggesting?

https://media.tenor.com/RwBjqR1YPMwAAAAM/rachel-jennifer-aniston.gif

A uterus does not define a woman alone - we do not become men if we have a hysterectomy - but still a relevant gif....

I was trying to highlight the ridiculousness of the post I was quoting. I think you'll get my point if you read back.

Obviously women's experiences should be at the centre of discussion around issues relating to sexism as they suffer most of the consequences of it. Just as people of colours views should be at the centre of discussions around racism. Ditto for those with disabilities around issues pertaining to that, Jewish people's around anti semitism etc etc.

I fundamentally disagree with you, to the very core.

The phrase people of colour is incredibly racist for one, just staggeringly. It implies that the literal colour of your skin is the only reason people experience racism, it ignore millions of whiter than me Eastern European people who experience racism and obviously ignores the very real and true racism that white people experience in India and Africa.

Secondly - to say that the "victims" are the ones best place to say if something is racist or not? NO, NO, NO - that only ever encourages a victim mentality, and we get to the insane position that (for example) (some) Jewish groups get to define what anti semitism is and they then include anti Zionism? Madness, absolute madness, lunatics taken over the asylum rubbish it really is.

I would be interested to hear more about the racism against white people in India and Africa
Particularly Africa. It's a huge continent. Where specifically are you talking about and what measurable impact does this have on white people? Would be interested in statistics such as life expectancy, poverty etc.

And if you're willing to address all my points rather than just cherry picking them, we can.

Racism happens wherever one group outnumbers another, whatever shade of brown they are, it's a very human thing to do, regardless of how evolved we like to think of ourselves as. The "other" manifests itself in every part of life.

So no examples of oppression then and you don't know which country in Africa you are talking about.

Stop being such a poor debater. Cherry picking the things you want to respond to rather than the actual point makes it transparent you don't have a leg to stand on.

I mean, there's a whole damned wikipedia page on racism in Africa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RacisminAfrica you might not believe this but people with darker skin can be as racist as anyone else.

Rwanda? South Africa? Egypt? Libya? Not ringing any bells at all?

This is ridiculous…it smacks of the ‘all lives matter’ retort.

Going to need to give us more context for us to know what you mean?

I can't see any examples of statistics in this that indicate that white people in these counties have poorer outcomes due to the colour of their skin. If I've missed them please quote them here.

Your other point was talking about Jewish people being lunatics running an asylum which is clearly anti semitic so I'm not sure what response you want for that.

Who said anything about (only) "white people"

Just because your limited and simplistic understanding of racism is based on how much melatonin someone has in their skin, does not mean thats what racism is

And I take great offence to you claiming I have an antisemitic bone in my body - I am proudly anti Zionist, like a good number of Jews are - that is not antisemitic, its an appreciation of the nuance of the situation in the Middle East. My point is that if you let the offended people decide what is offensive or not, you are letting the lunatics run the asylum.

Clearly you do not have the knowledge or depth of understanding to have this conversation.

Who said anything about "white people"

You did.

the very real and true racism that white people experience in India and Africa.

I do apologise for this. I thought you were calling Jewish people lunatics. Now you have explained your point I can see this isn't what you meant.

There's some artful derailing going on in this thread.

It always happens on these threads.

Derailing is bad enough on gender identity threads, but ethnicity threads seem to be a magnet for people with strong opinions about Jews.

To be fair ethnicity threads are going to attract the attention of people who are from marginalised backgrounds and their haters. You can't really complain that people respond to threads about race by bringing up topics related to racism.

Given that the vast majority of Jewish people identify as Zionist antizionism is antisemitism.

www.annefrank.org/en/topics/antisemitism/are-all-jews-zionists/

A Zionist is someone who believes Jewish people have the right to a Jewish state where they can live safely.

Oh dear. This has taken a turn.
Respect to all, but could we stick closer to the question asked by the OP?

So a man appropriating a woman's lived experience isn't seen as 'problematic???'

A man appropriating a woman real and lived oppression isn't 'problematic...'

A man prancing around, in fake boobs, fishnets and a pvc micro skirt, calling himself 'Fanny Flange' isn't taking the absolute piss out of everything women are perceived to be ?????

This comes up again and again... and again. I reckon it helps white women feel as though they're genuinely the most vulnerable group. They all seem to ridicule the apparent absurdity of why one is unacceptable yet another is embraced, and they agree with each other that both are the same all to feel like the most vulnerable group in society. This argument is oft carried by tales of racist experiences of being the solo white person in a shop once. It's all circular, but almost nobody buys it but them so if it helps people sleep better at night go for it! A bit like how women fought for the right to work and so forth.

No. It is categorically not and only an idiot would think so. Many, many people are opposed to a Jewish ethnostate in Palestine, Me among them.

Zionism mandates that a state, only for Jews, exists where Israel is now, nowhere else. Essential detail you missed.

Like I said. Any thread that touches on ethnicity, the probability of someone turning up with cranky opinions about Jews approaches 100%.