Here are the notes for today from the TT Substack. Apologies for formatting.I will make it a long one as the thread is almost full. We can copy and paste it all to the next one quicker this way.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DmmiyuFLH_MnhFhgCSFEJuEXdLUoHfCZ/view
[Courts resumes]
[SC Tenders docs. Nick Johnstone takes the stand]
SC: At the time you prepared your affidavit, you thought your emails when you were at Liberal party would be deactivated?
NJ: No longer had access to emails yes
SC: You've attached some emails. Where did you get them?
NJ: Don't recall but some emails retrieved from May when I did affidavit.
SC: So your emails were reactivated. I'm wondering about ones attached considering inaccessible at that time. Do you know how you got copies?
NJ: Assume through Alex at the office
SC: In March 23 when you were in JP's office. What did it entail?
NJ: Head of communications
SC: How many people did you supervise?
NJ: About 6 including me
SC: Did comms team communicate info to Journos to give effect to whatever msg JP wanted to convey?
NJ: Yes
SC: Did it compile media in order to show MPs?
NJ: Yes
SC: Have you had chance to look at morning media compilation from 19th and 20th March 2023?
NJ: At the time Yes
SC: Do you know who would have prepared those 2 docs?
NJ: No. We had a roster system. Could have been any one of 5
SC: You didn't though?
NJ: No
SC: Were you aware prior to 18th March that MD had made statement about LWS rally?
JP: Aware it was happening and she was involved
SC: How?
NJ: Social Media
SC: Did you follow her?
NJ: Can't recall
SC: Is it likely as you follow her now?
NJ: I may have
SC: Did you recall message from AW about MD’s attendance?
NJ: Vague recollection
SC: Discussion with JP and Leadership team about MD’s attendance?
NJ: I think so
SC: That she was promoting the rally?
NJ: Recollection of SM that was she promoting it
SC: From your perspective as Head of Comms, you understood Members of Parliament often communicated to public via SM accounts?
NJ: Yes
SC: You had political experience of this?
NJ: No [NJ goes on to say he was new to the job at the time]
SC: Was it your experience over the time you were there when MoPs did that, they didn't always go formal channels?
NJ: Yes
SC: Putting out announcement was faster than formal media release?
NJ: Yes
SC: On 18th March you saw SM posts about rally?
NJ: I did
SC: You knew from SM that M had attended?
NJ: Yes and I'd been contacted by ppl through the day and we'd issued statement by DS condemning rally
SC: Just getting the timing. Feel free to refer to affidavit. Para 9 under heading 'the rally'. On that day you say the rally was story on evening news. Suggest you didn't see any evening news that suggested MD was in attendance?
NJ: I don't think I'm saying that in affidavit. I'm saying neo nazis had turned up and her attendance
SC: On SM? Not MSM
NJ: Not necessarily no
SC: you say you spoke to JP. DS and Batten issued joint PR at 6pm
NJ: Yes
SC: Is the case your call with JP arose from that?
NJ: I'd been in comms with AW and had to be across every press release and had convos with AW and look er... Yes probs 6pm
SC: Do you recall what he said about MD ?
NJ: He asked me what my view was from what I'd seen and heard. He was obviously concerned she'd been at rally where neo nazis had turned up
SC: Did you talk to DS at all?
NJ: Can't recall
SC: The following day, just so I can identify this doc, I'll show you morning press doc I understand your team prepared
[Shows doc from Mr.Rogers in comms team. SC goes through process of preparing and sending docs]
SC: This was a standard recipient list?
NJ: MPs and staff yes
[SC Tenders doc]
[SC shows email from following day and that Ben Greenwood did morning media session]
SC: Para 11. 19th March. JP told you a meeting was being arranged with MD ?
NJ: Yes
SC: Did JP tell you what he intended to do?
NJ: No. Recollection he was having meeting for her to explain her side of story and I was to
attend later
SC: RPL sent you message re press release for MD ?
NJ: Yes
SC: It specifically asked you to call him?
NJ: Don't recall
SC: You didn't prepare a PR for MD ?
NJ: No
SC: Why?
NJ: I don't know
SC: Suggest because you had formed the view it was a waste of time?
NJ: No
SC: You formed the view MD wouldn't be issuing press release because of expulsion or resignation?
NJ: No
SC: Can you tell me when RPL asked you to make press release, why there was no press release?
NJ: Understood meeting was an opportunity for her to give her version of events
SC: Sure but what's your explanation as to why you haven't prepared a statement from her regarding 3rd possibility about clearing matters up?
NJ: Can't recall
SC: You sure?
NJ: Yes
SC: You then attended a meeting - in your office at spring street?
NJ: JPs office next door to mine
SC: How long was Meeting before MD attended? About half hour
NJ: Roughly
SC: Do you recall RPL reading out info from his screen?
NJ: I remember range of material
SC: Were you given a piece of paper?
NJ: Can't recall
SC: Suggest rather than being shown things, things were described by RPL?
NJ: Yes might have been looking at them myself on my own devices
SC: Re the video you hadn't watched that vid before this meeting?
NJ: Er. No. Not that I recall
SC: Did you watch at all that pm?
NJ: Yes
SC: Whole vid or extract from Twitter?
NJ: I watched...I can't recall if part or all
SC: Do you remember being sent a tweet from @paulinepantsdown that had an extract?
NJ: Yes
SC: Is that the only part you saw?
NJ: No
SC: Where did you access it?
NJ: On phone
SC: Link?
NJ: Can't recall
SC: You sure?
NJ: Yes
SC: The way you describe it as a video and that the room was disturbed that the video had celebrated the nazis turning up?
NJ: Yes
SC: Suggest you only saw part where women were celebrating rally?
NJ: I'd seen barbie doll as well as AJ tweet about paedo filth
SC: Yes but had you seen any other part of vid where women celebrating?
NJ: I remember seeing discussion about the rally
SC: You think you watched on phone?
NJ: Yes
SC: Suggest that wasn't tenner of the convo. In fact convo was that MD had to go?
NJ: Don't accept
SC: In fact had you understood the team considered best course was to advise MD to apologise and distance and that she and Liberal Party had no connection to neo nazis - you would have written press release?
NJ: Not necessarily
SC: You’re telling us in para 16 that that was agreed best course of action. If that's what happened and that was the convo the first thing you would have done is start to prepare doc for MD re distancing?
NJ: There was no guarantee she was going to do that. I had to wait for outcome
SC: But you didn't wait until the outcome?
NJ: No there were drafts going back and forth during meeting
SC: Next thing that happened you sent Mr Woof a text message which had
@Paulinepantsdown tweet. Remember?
NJ: Yes
SC: If it were case I suggest if you had full link to the video you would have sent that to him?
[Judge apologises but needs to adjourn court] [Court returns. I returned a bit late to the proceedings therefore I will miss the end]
SC: I was asking about an email you sent to AW with @paulinepantsdown tweet with video embedded?
NJ: Yes
SC: I suggest if you had the actual link to the video you would have forwarded it?
NJ: Not necessarily.
SC: Do you recall from when you sent that and phone call from 5.30pm about instructions about what you wanted him to do?
NJ: We had number of discussions but can’t remember
[SC shows first draft by JP]
SC: It provided for MD to tender her resignation?
NJ: Yes
SC: You sent to AW about 5.21pm?
NJ: Yes
SC: I suggest between 5 and 5.30 you spoke to AW about what you needed him to do and you said ‘Moira’s gone it’s just a case of how it plays out’?
NJ: Don’t remember saying that
SC: JP had decided MD had to go and only options were expulsion and resignation?
NJ: Not necessarily
SC: You didn’t go to meeting MD attended?
NJ: No
SC: Any idea it was recorded?
NJ: No
SC: When did you find out?
NJ: About 2 weeks ago
SC: Did anyone send you any messages while it was still going?
NJ: Can’t recall
SC: This email is not in your affidavit. AW sent you an email at 5.47. You said he left placeholder for the outcome?
NJ: Yes
SC: Suggest you did slightly more than that?
[Shows email]
SC: In addition he asked [reads] and you never responded?
NJ: Erm I don’t recall. We were having convos as well as emails exchanges. He was at home and I was in office
SC: It’s right there’s no record of any journalistss during Sunday, prior to JP media release, that night enquiring about rally with nazis?
NJ: I got 2 or 3
SC: You can’t point to a record?
NJ: I would have 100s from journalists in a week
SC: This is the email missing from your affidavit from you to AW at 5.56pm. You’ve changed the paragraph that spoke of resignation to expulsion?
NJ: Yes
SC: Why did you make the change or create a new draft for handling expulsion motion?
NJ: Can’t recall. Possible someone gave me an update from the meeting. Preparing
different drafts for different scenarios
SC: I suggest all the people were still in the meeting, can you recall why you drafted this doc?
NJ: No
SC: You proceeded to draft expulsion as you knew the option was on table?
NJ: I said that earlier
SC: You said there were 3 options and by 5.56 you had drafts for 2 of those suspension and expulsion but no 3rd
NJ: Not that I recall
SC: Because it wasn’t on the table?
NJ: No Leadership team was gonna ask MD about what happened. I wasn’t presuming anything. Real possibility of suspension and expulsion
SC: Meeting at 6.35- did you talk to anyone on the break?
NJ: Possible but don’t recall. Was in office
SC: Did they have meeting in absence of MD with you present?
NJ: Ask again sorry
SC: Were you with Leadership team and RPL?
NJ: Can’t recall. It’s possible
SC: You remember discussion?
NJ: No
SC: Then media release sent out?
NJ: Not until MD had left. I had convo with JP DS and RPL
SC: You received doc at 8.30pm. Para 2 of your affidavit. 1 page doc about KJK. What did you do with that?
[Shows doc]
SC: It says ‘nick attached for you to print off’.1from RPL to you. Copy to JP?
NJ: Yes
SC: Do you understand you would print that off so JP had copy for media interviews next day?
NJ: Can’t recall
SC: Did you look or read for yourself?
NJ: Can’t recall but probably
SC: Can you recall using that doc to brief media with background that night after press release released?
NJ: Almost certain I didn’t
SC: Did you use doc next day for interviews?
NJ: Can’t recall but know JP referred to some of that material
SC: Do you remember receiving enquires about the materials?
NJ: Yes. Can’t recall who we provided it to but material was on public record
SC: So if someone called up and said eg. Barbie nazi, you’d have sent out?
NJ: Yes
SC: As media interviews and JP refine material, media team were sending copies?
NJ: Yes
SC: How many enquiries did you receive that night re press release?
NJ: Couldn’t tell you specifically. Several
SC: The next day 20th, there were many weren’t there?
NJ: Yes. JP did interviews.
SC: How many enquiries throughout Monday?
NJ: Dozens
SC: You were busy?
NJ: Flat out
SC: Were you taking part in collation of dossier?
NJ: No
SC: You were being emailed different drafts through 20th. Were you looking at/ keeping up with that?
NJ: Not really I was managing comms
SC: You were in the office Did you watch 6pm news and 6.30 SPS news?
NJ: Can’t recall
SC: Do you remember meeting JP at 7am to prepare him for interviews?
NJ: Yes we would have
SC: Do you think he was provided with a hard copy of that doc?
NJ: I can’t recall
SC: You listened to the interviews?
NJ: Yes most
SC: He’d been making erroneous allegations about KJK?
NJ: There was one with Mitchell and played again on sky news
SC: And you didn’t notice the error?
NJ: Not at the time. Very busy day
SC: One of the versions of draft dossier through the day, you received detailed version at 11.18 and when you forwarded to AW you said “we need to get this to tv”?
NJ: You mean the dossier?
SC: Yes I’ll show you that message
[Shows msg]
SC: You forwarded to AW?
NJ: That’s says fact sheet
SC: Sorry we’ve been calling it the dossier. This is the one page doc. I’ll call it the fact sheet. I’ll show you the attachment
[Shows doc]
SC: The first page looks same as night before - before there’s a lot more material added. Pic of AJ tweet. More AJ tweet, @paulinepantsdown tweet, more AJ tweets, AJ tweeting about not being a nazi. AJ twitter homepage. Long doc. More AJ tweets, barbie doll image. Posts from other ppl making allegations against KJK . Pink News. Gariepe. You remember seeing it?
NJ: Can’t remember when
SC: From this doc the comms team backgrounded the media with this info?
NJ: It was on public record so we’d have been happy to provide
SC: The reason it was given to you so it could be used by comms team to comm with media?
NJ: At some stage yes
SC: Just wanna ask you about what happened with ultimate release of dossier next day.
Dossier sent to MD and MPs. You say “parts had been leaked to The Age”. I suggest rather than that being the final doc, it was apparent from The Age article info from dossier had been backgrounded to the media
NJ: The Age had a lot more info than any other at the time. My understanding we’d not given any info from document
(Missed SC)
NJ: Final version or draft?
SC: I’m not suggesting you provided final version, suggesting comms team was providing info from fact sheet/dossier to media throughout the day
NJ: We would have yes
SC: Suggest The Age had info from 11.17 draft info that didn’t appear in final version. Did you notice?
NJ: Can’t say I did
SC: You didn’t discern from The Age article that any expulsion motion and dossier info had been given to The age?
NJ: A substantial amount had been given to The Age. We hadn’t given them any info.
[SC brings up article. Monday night]
SC: Nothing in those first 2 paras that you thought indicates dossier was provided?
NJ: No
SC: We’ll keep going. Age speaking to people. Here references dossier. ‘Party’s leadership team have compiled dossier on MD – vote takes place next Monday’ that’s what JP told Credlin that night. You didn’t think that indicated The Age had the dossier?
NJ: Well I’d have to read entire story.
SC: It doesn’t indicate they had the dossier?
NJ: It could’ve. It says there’s a dossier
SC: You understood JP had talked about that publicly?
NJ: I can’t recall. He did number of interviews through day
SC: That would say to you that the source of info would be leadership team?
NJ: That would be speculating. They would speak to number of ppl as any journalist would
SC: There’s one Lib MP commenting on what process would be. That’s not referring to anything in dossier?
NJ: No that’s about JP leadership
SC: Then Deeming saying she was blindsided. Nothing about dossier there?
NJ: No
SC: MD condemns salute. Quote from MD. you remember press release on SM?
(Missed)
SC: JP had spoken about MD promoting LWS?
NJ: Yes
SC: Spoken about organisers sharing platforms with white supremacists?
NJ: No
SC: Karaoke night post event. JP hadn’t spoken about that. Suggest that came from 11.18 draft and doesn’t appear in final version?
NJ: I don’t know
SC: That line from 11.17 draft?
NJ: Don’t remember
SC: Then reference to KJK giving interview. There’s further convo about rally and quote from JP. Quote from MD about how she felt about nazis coming. Then going back to LS team about how they felt about MD actions. Suggest there’s nothing in the article that suggests the Age journalist who wrote it had a copy of final expulsion motion or dossier or any part?
NJ: Don’t accept
SC: This Age article was used a pretext to send dossier to everyone next morning?
NJ: It was clear dossier was out there
Judge: From this article?
NJ: Yes and the expulsion motion and on that basis we had convo and agreed dossier should be released to Journos who enquired. I got calls from journalists asking
SC: Ygot them after JP appeared on Credlin and talked about it between 6.30 and 7?
NJ: Can’t recall
SC: Suggest not correct you genuinely thought dossier was in possession of the journo who wrote this?
NJ: I hold that to be the case
SC: JP says dossier should be released. AW distributed?
NJ: Yes
SC: You had a meeting with leadership at 9am. Do you recall one of the topics was that MD had sent through material on Monday morning. You remember Leadership team didn’t think it sufficient to stop the motion?
NJ: Yes
SC: “Too little too late”?
NJ: Yes
SC: You didn’t attend?
NJ: No
SC: But you later helped work on drafts on the statement?
NJ: Correct
SC: Do you recall shortly after suspension occurred on March 27 that it was – from convos with LS team – that it was their intent to pursue MD’s expulsion
NJ: Repeat
SC: [repeats]. You understood JP wished to find reason for expulsion?
NJ: What time period?
SC: From March 27?
NJ: Don’t recall
SC: Do you recall a time period which JP wished to proceed to expel MD?
NJ: No. At that stage she’d been suspended for 9 months
SC: Wasn’t it the case you understood JP was waiting For MD to do something that would warrant expulsion?
NJ: No
SC: Document 488. [Brings up WhatsApp leadership and media team.] Do you remember preparing draft on 27th April about expelling MD?
NJ: Can’t recall
[Shows doc.]
SC: So at some point before 27th April there was convo between you and JP that you contemplated that course?
NJ: She had made it clear she was going to launch legal action against JP and convos along Leadership group something would have to give. Things had moved on from March
SC: Do you recall when those convos occurred?
NJ: Can’t recall
SC: You understood in lead up that those convos involved JP moving motion to expel MD ?
NJ: Him or others....in the end a number of MPs
SC: Do you recall when Mrs Heath accused JP of bullying re minutes?
NJ: Yes
SC: Do you recall you organised for other team members in answering questions from the press to criticise Mrs Heath?
NJ: No
SC: They hang around the doors of parliament asking for comments?
NJ: Yes
[Shows doc]
SC: You remember sending these messages on May 3rd where you’ve suggested that, first [lists Liberal Leadership members] “they’re all happy to do doors and go hard”?
NJ: Yes
SC: What you’re referring to is getting all those people to go hard against Renee Heath when they answered questions going in and out of parliament?
NJ: Don’t remember about Heath, I’d been asked to see if I could get MPs to support JP leadership and give comments that day. Was in support of JP, ppl on list all supportive of JP
SC: I’ll tender that exchange
[VIDEO link expires. 10 minutes missed]