Moira Deeming defamation trial - Thread 2 from Australia

[TheSandgroper]

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on?page=40&reply=138525746

Tribunal Tweets Substack https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/moira-deeming-v-john-pesutto-a-case?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share. Thanks to @BezMills

Thanks to everyone on thread 1. I am pleased it generated such interest and conversations. I have learnt a lot from many very bright women.

If they see 'paedo freaks' and think 'trans people' then that is their tranphobia in action. Which I can see they would want to keep quiet!

Reminds of the tweet that was made in response to a call in Florida for the death penalty for child rapists…

His honour was distinctly unimpressed with Rodrigo. HH understood the "nazis and paedos" tweet and also agreed that "adult babies" were paedophiles. He said so.

Coming back to this tweet (and I believe I heard the judge point out the full context of the tweet to Pintos-Lopez). It was specifically mentioned in the expulsion notice.

https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/hub/media/tearout-excerpt/15016/Letter-of-Motion-regarding-Moira-Deeming-20-March-2023.pdf

(b) on 19 March 2023, meeting with and publishing a video with KellieJay Keen, Katherine Deeves, and Angie Jones and that Angie Jones, on that day posted on Twitter words that, in the mind of any reasonable and lay observer, made association with Nazis including on 4:41pm by posting the words “Nazis and women want to get rid of paedo filth. Why don’t you”, that quote being set out in the Annexure hereto, which Annexure also contains a hyperlink to the video referred to in this reason.”

So much of the action for public censure and eventually expulsion rested on an unreasonable and twisted interpretation of that tweet. And under oath Pintos-Lopez stated he could not remember seeing the tweet in context at the time of putting together the information.

How much disregard for people does it take for a group of leaders who hoped to lead one of the most influential states in the nation to ascribe motivations to the people they accuse of wrongdoing that directly contradict the motivations stated clearly by the person they are accusing?

I think it is significant that this tweet has been discussed repeatedly in this case, because it was specifically featured in the expulsion notification. This repeated focus during the trial has meant that His Honour now has a full understanding of the tweet and the power and importance the team gave it. So much so, that during the session with the creator of the dossier, HH pointed out the meaning of the tweet and the context himself.

Yup.

Nazis are drawn to and by anti Nazis and anti- fascists........that is the pull.

Trans activists turn up to events with anti fascist banners and scream 'Nazi' at women........if and when some Nazis actually turn up then everything is going according to plan, surely? When they don't turn up, such as at the Labour conference last year in Liverpool, the mob look confused but continue to shout anti Nazi slogans anyway.

Yes. And considering how many people jump onto a thread and don't read all of it, or have missed sections of it, I don't believe it is a waste of time to point out original source material or fuller context to counter this. And readers don't read all the thread, they might never have seen the claims made. I don't assume anyone else reading the thread has read the information.

Just because some posters don't engage with evidence, doesn't mean that readers don't if they see it and have the opportunity.

Take for instance this implication from the video and posts on this thread that it is a regular occurrence for 'similar people / groups' as the neo-nazis to speak at or turn up to LWS events. Based on a man who had already denounced the Proud Boys by the time he spoke. And he spoke only against transitioning children. But that ONE man has become the keystone to that false claim.

This focus, this keystone, is the artificial narrowing of the discussion to one example being then generalised and catastrophised.

It is a good comparison actually with this Angie Jones tweet.

Literally video evidence of her pinning a mic on him so he can speak. We have eyes and can see.

They must have known that the context of that tweet was not only obvious, but that it would come out. And once it had, they would look like lying liars.

I don't believe for a second that he didn't ask to see the context. Anyone would. It's a very assertive tweet.

You do wonder how politicians can be quite so stupid, sometimes

Also, have I got it right, that the person Angie is talking to is an adult baby, and the judge agrees that adult babies are paedophiles?

Based on a man who had already denounced the Proud Boys by the time he spoke.

Have you got a link to Chris Barcenas denouncing the Proud Boys?

The last witness was Nick Johnston. Head of communications and media. His answers were a lot of can’t recall.

Court adjourned until 11am Wednesday 9 October. Daylight saving time will have started by then so adjust the time to be an hour earlier. Chrysanthou and Collins won’t be there. Their juniors will be handling it. Not starting until 11am so Chrysanthou’s junior Mr Dean can fly there that morning. Mainly videos to be played in full.

Story about Chrysanthou for anyone interested. She doesn’t give interviews and didn’t for this one but the newspaper spoke to those close to her.
https://archive.is/bT6eu

I think that the person just supports 'adult babies' as a legitimate sexuality. He doesn't seem to be an adult baby in the sense that you are proposing. (he may be in other ways though....)

What an amazing woman! She's like a character from an American drama series.
A brilliant barrister and a compassionate human being.

Wow these proceedings have certainly shone a bright bright light on the amount of rigour and fact-checking that went into these accusations against MD. It's now merely a question, I would think, of whether they will be attributed to simple malice or malice and incompetence.

If the VALP want to have that absolute shambles of a man as their leader, they should crack on with it. No skin off my nose.

He's been revealed as deeply untrustworthy and incompetent, if you ask me. Not exactly the sort who you'd want leading a state branch of a party which wishes to appeal to the voters as trustworthy and competent.

Moira is nothing to do with the post you quoted.
My comments are nothing to do with "liking" her. I don't know her so "liking" would be an odd position to take.

I'll restate though, I'm interested in the trial because I think there will be ramifications if political leaders can't remove the whip/expel people as its seen as "defamatory".

I'm also interested at just how unclear the "defamation" is. Your phrase is useful actually. It does feel like MD is suing them for not "liking" her.

New Nazi and politician scandal. A Queensland Labor MP has had a photo from 1987 resurface. He was wearing a Hitler t-shirt in a yearbook photo. Queensland has a state election coming up in 3 weeks and the media has been waging war against Labor for months. They keep trying to convince the public that the LNP would be better. Like hell they would be. Bloody Murdoch controlled media.
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/caloundra-labor-mp-jason-hunt-defends-wearing-hitler-tshirt-in-high-school-year-book-claims-it-was-satirical/news-story/9e5a01875a3fef7d78434456546e6356?amp&nk=9783f60fbf3d919a4f5b23cd18ee3222-1728029052

Your problem helle is by repeatedly denying the evidence and claiming its all lies/made up, you encourage people to see for themselves what's going on. And KJKs twitter/YouTube is increasingly full of material that reinforces the view you are so desperate to deny.

I would say the same I always do. People can draw their own conclusions from the facts available. Your conclusions are different to mine. That's OK from my perspective but seems not to be from yours.

I remember reading something more specific at the time, but I cannot find it on twitter. I remember reading some kind of statement from him. It is lost under so much other information and frankly, I cannot be arsed to find the specific statement.

However, here you go as it was also brought up in the past weeks as something Moira Deeming 'should have known':

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article268479427.html

This article is from the 9th November 2022 and states :

"Chris Barcenas, who also organized the rally and is another former Proud Boy turned Miami-Dade GOP committee member"

The Let Women Speak rally was 5th November 2022, I doubt that he left the group within the four days between.

I believe that Chris Barcenas has political aims, as he was then and is now a member of the Republican Committee. He is now on the Miami-Dade Republican Executive Committee. Did he use that rally for his own political benefit? Quite likely. However, it pays to focus on the facts and the accusations and when those accusations were made.

HTH

Like I remember about a year ago posters being vociferous to me on another thread that KJK had no links to CPAC, it was a smear, she hadn't taken their money or if she had it was because she can't pay for security herself so of course she would accept their money, but she's said she's politically homeless and of the left at heart. She's not linked to CPAC, that's a lie.

Now she's been listed as a speaker at CPAC, endorses Donald Trump and set up her own political party with the nominating officer being a man who supported Reform in the election.

So yes, the "it's a lie" thing doesn't wash with me very much. Because my experience to date has been the more effort posters on these threads put into saying things are lies/smears, the more it turns out that they are in fact accurate.

He's hardly denouncing them in that article the para you quote is the only mention.

So nothing then, bearing in mind he 'distanced' himself after it appeared that he could be facing significant jail time for his involvement in the January 6th insurrection which he travelled to with friend and Miami division colleague Enrique Tarrio who was subsequently sentenced to 22 years for it.

.
Thanks, Helleofabore, for posting the full context of the Angie Jones tweet.
The fact that the contentious tweet appears just a few lines away from
'It was obvious they were not part of our rally' shows that it has been deliberately taken out of context - it's not like you have to trawl through pages and pages of tweets to find the unambiguous 'It was obvious they were not part of our rally', it's right there!

I know Cameron gets mixed reviews, but he was right on a few things. "Everybody is entitled to a private life before politics".

A bit of youthful high jinks or a stupid teenage joke that landed badly is no big deal in my opinion.

Nazis are drawn to and by anti Nazis and anti- fascists........that is the pull.

Trans activists turn up to events with anti fascist banners and scream 'Nazi' at women........if and when some Nazis actually turn up then everything is going according to plan, surely? When they don't turn up, such as at the Labour conference last year in Liverpool, the mob look confused but continue to shout anti Nazi slogans anyway.

Exactly. It was the women who wanted to talk about women's rights the so called "anti fascists" were champing at the bit to get at, rather than the actual card carrying Neo Nazi fascists. Weird.