In Australia - Moira Deeming defamation trial now on

[TheSandgroper]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-17/moira-deeming-john-pesutto-defamation-trial-day-two/104360100

This is from our very TRA ABC. Please note the comment from “Mr Southwick, a Jewish MP re Angie Jones’ tweet”. Well, Angie Jones is as Jewish as they come but they don’t say that.

Also, for, those who don’t know, see Angie on m.youtube.com/@TERFTalkDownUnder, though she hasn’t posted for a while. Some really good interviews.

I see. So now asking for evidence to support an opinion that I feel is misinformed or just plain incorrect is not me treating you like you are in court and me trying to trip you up?

And you joined in an interaction that you were not really informed about because people were pointing out the other poster had declared something in a way that looked to be based on knowledge so was questioned, and then questioned for clarification because the answer did not make sense. Do you believe that no poster should seek clarification?

And yes, "people were pointing out the other poster had declared something in a way that looked to be based on knowledge so was questioned, and then questioned for clarification because the answer did not make sense", this is an observation. Because this is why I was asking. That was my motivation and I have mentioned this several times before.

"I came at this because you were giving another poster a hard time for saying something I thought was fairly innocuous, so I had a read about it. That's all."

That has not been 'all'. You have argued that her views are not acceptable to the Liberal Party. Stating 'That's all' seems to be a significant difference to the truth as evidenced on this thread.

My questions are not 'completely irrelevant'. Why would the Victoria Liberal Party give a brand new MP the opportunities she had if she was in any way 'controversial' or 'on the edge of the party'?

If she was a controversial MP with beliefs on the edge of the party, they would be distancing her from having any influence at all, would they not? Because why the fuck would they give her opportunities to get to become senior one day if they expected her to be expelled because of her 'controversial' views? In the audio, Pesutto even stated that one day she could be up for a ministerial role.

Why would that be mentioned if the team found her beliefs 'on the edge of the party'?

Would you vote for a feminist who said she believed TWAW but it wouldn't affect how she did her job? I'm guessing not. Because I'm guessing most posters on here think someone who is TWAW doesn't understand womens issues deeply enough to represent them.

That's how I feel. I cannot understand how someone can be a feminist and pro-life. I can completely understand them saying they could never have an abortion but she said this: Abortion is a terrible evil. Each one wounds a mother and father, murders an unborn child, and ends a whole family line. And that is not to mention the wider wounds to the losses felt by siblings, grandparents and barren families that would have given anything to have a chance to love and raise that child.

https://dailydeclaration.org.au/2021/10/17/day-17-stopping-a-terrible-evil/

Nope. Noone who believes that can possibly claim to be on the side of women. In my opinion.

Whatever. I really have spent more than enough time today responding to your detailed questions.

"Would you vote for a feminist who said she believed TWAW but it wouldn't affect how she did her job? I'm guessing not. Because I'm guessing most posters on here think someone who is TWAW doesn't understand womens issues deeply enough to represent them."

I think there is a very significant difference between being up front with your beliefs about abortion and declaring that you, as an MP, will support other women's choices meaning that you are not working against the needs of women. And stating that you, as an MP, believed that somehow a male person can be a woman, and then declaring that somehow it would not impact on how she, the MP, did her job?

As an elected member of an electorate, if you declared that male people were women too, and then you voted against what your constituents wanted then this would be an issue.

If you found that the majority of your constituents believed that sex matters for some things and you therefore voted to support all those areas where sex matters, then that there would probably be a good comparison I would think.

You haven't actually 'responded' to any of my 'detailed questions' as far as I can see.

I think I can safely say that you have reacted to them though. And reacted to even being asked those questions. Which I have to add were originally posted for another poster to answer, but you did 'jump on' that interaction (to use your own words back to you) for your very own reasons.

And please, do clarify if I have given some kind of informed answers today and I missed them.

Would you vote for a feminist who said she believed TWAW but it wouldn't affect how she did her job? I'm guessing not. Because I'm guessing most posters on here think someone who is TWAW doesn't understand womens issues deeply enough to represent them.

I do not consider a woman who believes TWAW is a feminist. Nobody believing that is on the side of women.

I seem to recall that during the GE you were most insistent that women should vote Labour despite swathes of Labour MPs believing TWAW and in Self-Id you assured us that we would be well represented and all would be fine as they would not act on those beliefs, would protect women and understand women's issues deeply.

In the audio, Pesutto even stated that one day she could be up for a ministerial role.

Exactly, as far as I remember at the time, Moira's star was rising in the party.

Dear god.

sorry, that was my first reaction.

I'm editing it to add, for the love of God she's not a mass murderer, or a Prime Minister, or serial paedophile, ffs.

Seriously Cassie, get a grip.

Yes. The dissonance the a leadership team would make these opportunities available to an MP who was considered to have beliefs ‘outside the norm’ or ‘on the edge’ is clanging so loudly. I don’t know why any factional leadership team that would ever offer opportunities to a MP who they felt would never fit their desired belief profile.

If they did, I would think that shows that they have fucking the poorest judgement of any political leadership team ever. Giving progression opportunities to candidate who they expect will simply have to be expelled for extremism is not a wise strategy.

So much of this discussion about ‘extreme’ views seems to be coming across as some posters wish to make Moira Deeming into somehow deserving (although this will be denied) of being expelled. I do question the motivation of bringing up something like this without providing some kind of evidence.

It seems like a very harmful accusation.

And what also seems to be dissonant is the claim that we are not discussing the case. When we are fucking asking clarification about the interpretation of evidence provided for the case. …

Seems directly relevant that we discuss the interpretation or the misinterpretation of the evidence that has been listed.

Some on this thread seem to think it's a gotcha that Moira Deeming is anti abortion, as if posters here didn't know. I know, because people also raised it as a gotcha in March 2023.

There are many beliefs that individual women have which I personally don't see as feminist. I agree with Gail that TWAW is one of them. So are lots of different religious beliefs which are based on unequal treatment of the sexes. But there are women who are simply misguided about "trans rights" and some (few, but some) do care about women and girls.

But above all I think women have the right to believe what they want to, whether or not it's feminist. Moira Deeming is a strict Christian, she simply believes abortion is morally wrong. I don't agree and I don't see it as a feminist belief, but I can understand why she does believe it, because she has a different worldview that sees a foetus as a person/soul. In every other aspect she comes across to me as deeply compassionate and thoughtful, and not afraid to speak up in the face of injustices against women and children. I think it's that that is more "controversial" in the context, as I have said.

So much of this discussion about ‘extreme’ views seems to be coming across as some posters wish to make Moira Deeming into somehow deserving (although this will be denied) of being expelled.

I agree.

Theres a kind of mania going on there. Best not to engage, it never stops :(

Sorry.

“do clarify if I have BEEN given some kind of informed answers today and I missed them.”

It's too, too weird.

Comparing Posie Parker to fucking Ted Bundy?? 😱 to explain why she's soo fascinating!!? 😂

Women who support a woman who gives a public voice to hundreds and hundreds of women across the globe, is not the sa me as women who want to marry Ted Bundy!!

‘When someone shows you who they are believe them’

Well yes Cassie, you’ve shown who you are.

Comparing KJK to Ted Bundy is very very very strange.

Cassie certainly seems to live in their own world. Totally oblivious to how their posts come across.

Comparing Posie Parker to fucking Ted Bundy?? 😱 to explain why she's soo fascinating!!? 😂

Women who support a woman who gives a public voice to hundreds and hundreds of women across the globe, is not the sa me as women who want to marry Ted Bundy!!

Oh I missed the Ted Bundy bit, talk about jumping the shark into completely batshit territory. My flabber is well and truly ghasted.

Right. Well that's how I feel about a woman who describes abortion as "a terrible evil".

My support for Labour has nothing to do with my opinions about whether I believe woman who describes abortion as a "terrible evil" can be a feminist.

Would I still vote Labour if they had MPs who thought that? Yes. I'm sure they do have MPs who think that. Would I vote for my Labour candidate if they thought that? Probably, unless they were campaigning to remove womens reproductive rights. Would I call said MP a feminist? No.

I'd say actually the election shows some posters here's position as they wouldn't even countenance voting for a women who said TWAW even if said woman wasn't campaigning on it.

Interesting question though, if irrelevant to my point about Deeming.

Do you have any thoughts on what's been said in the trial datun?

I agree with everything you've said, apart from your first para. I didnt actually know about her views on abortion until helles challenge to mess yesterday and assumed she was controversial for being GC. I'm not raising it as a "gotcha". I'm raising it because several posters said people only have an issue with her because she's GC.

Some people will find her GC stance controversial. Some will find her pro-life stance controversial. Some will find her disregard for covid rules controversial. I don't really think it is worth discussing which are more controversial, suffice to say she is a controversial politician and maybe the LWS event and her response was enough to tip the balance, as they said in the audio.

Lol comparing Posey Parker to Ted Bundy looking slightly different written down than it did in your head...?

😂
OK Alison. Or maybe, you could see it that I made a list of truly batshit behaviours that fans of narcissists display, and I was in fact comparing KJK fans to Bundy fans in their ability to ostrich over what's patently obvious.

This trial is an example of that writ large. Deeming was warned about the likelihood of Nazis showing up. She knew KJK was controversial. She chose to believe that all the stuff about associations with extremists was lies and has got herself tangled up in a career damaging episode and trial that KJK swerved. She even said in her evidence that KJK had been "unhelpful" when she asked her about the events in the dossier.

Sucked in and spat out for an ego boost in my opinion.