Sarah Owen - woman's hour

[Marchintospring]

Sorry if there is already a thread

Wow.
So basically she hopes the debate has " moved on" from what is a woman". She then said woman's spaces were safe but went into say that anyone could be chucked out of a woman's refuge if they didn't behave ( implying that was the solution to trans woman being in there and causing problems). No mention that a trans woman could therefore also get an actual biological woman kicked out. So a biological man who shouldn't be in woman's space anyway could effectively displace a woman. Again .

she's still believes she's kind.

How are our politicians so batshit crazy? Men cannot become women and it's not hateful to state that. You can't protect women if you won't define what a woman is

So no different to Caroline Nokes then?

Meaning we just have to keep on working through this.

She then said woman's spaces were safe but went into say that anyone could be chucked out of a woman's refuge if they didn't behave ( implying that was the solution to trans woman being in there and causing problems).

I didn't listen to it but you say 'implied'. She said women's spaces were safe. So that implies men won't be in them. Then she said anyone could be thrown out for misbehaving - well that's true, anyone can. You need to abide by the rules to stay in a refuge.

So she then said, transwomen will be in refuges. Therefore contradicting herself?

Its more disappointing that there was no questioning of what she was taking about from Woman's Hour.

She said woman's spaces were safe but absolutely didn't say what constitutes a "woman". There was no need to mention getting thrown out of a refuge whilst talking about trans women other than to imply this might be an issue. Why would a trans woman be in a woman's refuge if safe spaces are respected? Clue...they won't be.

She was being interviewed by Anita Rani. The only way Rani would have challenged Owen would have been if Owen had deviated from right-think.

I just caught the end of the interview so I checked here hoping something had been said earlier that might have been a bit reassuring. Alas no. Same old shite. So transwowen can be excluded if they misbehave. Got it.

She doesn't stop to question why they should be able to be excluded, when actual women wouldn't be. What an idiot.

If she's using the Equality Act to justify that, which I understand she did, she knows that the Equality Act can be used to exclude males regardless of "gender" however she equivocates. Or maybe she doesn't understand what the exceptions are. Either way she's not the sharpest tool. And nor is Rani.

I see. Sorry I misunderstood you. I thought she said that women's spaces were safe - I understand that as meaning protected under the EA which has exemptions to the GRA. So therefore protected as biological women's spaces. Otherwise what was she talking about? Safe from who?

But she actually said that transwomen would be in women's spaces but could be removed if they misbehaved? That's obviously a load of crap and doesn't make sense. I can't understand why she wasn't challenged. This really is ridiculous.

Thing is, if there is 'misbehaviour' that means a woman or girl might be hurt or suffer first which is not acceptable in a place of refuge.

@Toseland yes absolutely.

To be honest we are screwed anyway.

Equality Act 2010
"Under the Act, a person’s legal sex is the sex recorded on their birth certificate or their Gender Recognition Certificate. A trans person can change their legal sex by obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate."

Gender Recognition Certificate,

• you’re aged 18 or over
• you’ve been diagnosed with gender dysphoria in the UK
• you’ve been living in your affirmed gender for at least 2 years
• you intend to live in this gender for the rest of your life

You can apply even if you have not had any gender affirming surgery or treatments, or you do not plan to have any.

If you do not have a gender dysphoria diagnosis
You might still be able to apply, but only if you meet all of the following requirements:

• you currently live in England, Wales or Scotland
• you were in a marriage or a civil partnership on 10 December 2014 and living in England or Wales, or on 15 December 2014 and living in Scotland
• you had been living in your affirmed gender for at least 6 years before those dates, and you have evidence of that
• you have had gender affirmation surgery

If this applies to you, contact the Gender Recognition Panel admin team to find out how to apply. It’s a different process to the one described in the rest of this guidance. You can still apply through this route even if you do have a gender dysphoria diagnosis, so long as you meet all the requirements. However, you do not need to have had any gender affirmation surgery.

Have I got that right?

You could hear ( Sarah Owen) her mouth go dry when the question was asked about what did she think a woman was.......having up until then spending a good 20 minutes talking about women and safety and how it was her priority.

She then started to read off the script...the same one Kier Starmer uses....."a different, kinder conversation; move beyond......." without ever directly showing signs she was prepared to have that conversation. Deep down, she knows her position is unsustainable and compromised....hence her nerves.

But the official line is some women are " born women" ( No they're not; you are either born male or female and then you grow into an adult of that sex)

Labour's desire to continue to fudge and prevaricate means that the definition of sex will still not be clear when it comes to applying the law going forward.

" If you experience panic attacks, your body may shift its fluids, such as saliva and water, from your mouth to other parts of your body. This transition typically occurs when your fight-or-flight instincts activate, and you may end up with excess water in your sweat glands, resulting in dry mouth"

https://members.parliament.uk/member/4777/contact

Phone: 7219 8409 020 7219 8409
Email: [email protected]

Did she say that being a woman meant being paid less than men?

So all lower paid people are women? Or something? Crikey.

There are exemptions to the EA as outlined here:

Summary
The Equality Act allows for the provision of separate or single sex services in certain circumstances under ‘exceptions’ relating to sex.

To establish a separate or single-sex service, you must show that you meet at least one of a number of statutory conditions (set out in this section of the guide) and that limiting the service on the basis of sex is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. For example, a legitimate aim could be for reasons of privacy, decency, to prevent trauma or to ensure health and safety. You must then be able to show that your action is a proportionate way of achieving that aim.

There are circumstances where a lawfully-established separate or single-sex service provider can prevent, limit or modify trans people’s access to the service. This is allowed under the Act. However, limiting or modifying access to, or excluding a trans person from, the separate or single-sex service of the gender in which they present might be unlawful if you cannot show such action is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. This applies whether the person has a Gender Recognition Certificate or not.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-guide-equality-act-sex-and

"People reflexively start breathing more heavily when they lie as lying causes changes to heart rate and blood flow. Sometimes liars will even have trouble speaking as the mucous membranes in the mouth dry out as part of the body's response to lying".

Yes, that's right...a woman is someone "who gets paid less and who is not safe walking the streets"

Please use this as inspiration to email Sarah yourselves. Email is above.

"Dear Sarah Owen MP,

I would like to extend my congratulations on your recent appointment as Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee. This is an important role, and I hope that you will continue to advocate for policies that protect and uplift women and girls.

However, I was disappointed by your interview on Woman’s Hour on Thursday, 12th September. Your inability to clearly define what a woman is during that discussion is deeply concerning for many of us who trust you to safeguard the interests of women and girls.

A transwoman is biologically male, and I believe it is vital to maintain safe spaces for women that are free from male presence. These spaces exist to protect women and girls, many of whom are survivors of male violence. It is terrifying to think that those protections might be eroded by policies that allow biological men to enter spaces meant for women, under any circumstances.

Could you please clarify why you think it is acceptable for my teenage daughter to potentially share a changing space with biological men? I would also like to understand what happened to the safeguarding of women and girls from men who might exploit these policies by pretending to be women.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these crucial issues."

She also said something about " Nobody talks about Transmen"...the implication being ( although lost on her) that we all know that they are women too. If they are men, why would we need to talk about them on Woman's Hour?

The suggestion that men can only be thrown out if they “misbehave” means that women must experience harmful behaviour from men who would previously have been excluded on account of their sex.

The pretence that these policies are not harmful to women is infuriating in its stupidity and willful destructiveness.

'if someone misbehaves' means you are the test for them misbehaving. They get to come into the space, behave badly, and those very vulnerable people will have been abused again in the one place they should not be. The threat shouldn't be there in the first place.

What if the 'misbehaving' is abuse of a child? Oh but that's ok because afterwards they were asked to leave, is it?

@PriOn1

Sorry, cross posted with you to say the same thing, if less succinctly!

So when a woman gets a promotion with a pay increase the promotion is to status of non-woman if it goes past a certain wage? Is this published anywhere? Is this in Hansard? This is quite the news story!

And women who haven't been assaulted at all walking the streets are actually men? This is fascinating.