Sarah Owen - woman's hour

[Marchintospring]

Sorry if there is already a thread

Wow.
So basically she hopes the debate has " moved on" from what is a woman". She then said woman's spaces were safe but went into say that anyone could be chucked out of a woman's refuge if they didn't behave ( implying that was the solution to trans woman being in there and causing problems). No mention that a trans woman could therefore also get an actual biological woman kicked out. So a biological man who shouldn't be in woman's space anyway could effectively displace a woman. Again .

she's still believes she's kind.

So "she hopes the debate has " moved on" from what is a woman", not for me it hasn't, and until the government admit that Women = Adult Human Female it won't be.

So "she hopes the debate has " moved on" from what is a woman"

No Sarah, it hasn't. Sorry it's inconvenient.

If I'm in a womens refuge and a woman is walking around naked after a shower, thats a very different thing to a trans woman walking around naked, one is "misbehaviour", one is not.
Lets go a step further and say the trans woman has a GRC, wouldn't it be discrimination to punish the trans woman because it wouldn't be misbehaviour if a woman did it?

Where is this focus on kindness in deciding who is disabled? To me kindness only has to be implored if we are making an exception and the behviour is optional, whereas they are trying to mandate kindness going only one way ever

The point about misbehaviour is that someone has to start a complaint or court process to assert their right. How many unhappy service users will have the stomach for that.
Just praying that the Tories pick Kemi. Her performance before the select committee was box office. I can't stand the rest of her politics but I would love to see her make Starmer squirm. And I'm a Labour member.

The body's panic response to having to lie is quite obvious when you've encountered it. I've noticed Rachel Reeves, who's usually very articulate, being asked the same question and suddenly stammering and making weird noises in her throat.

I'm fascinated by this idea that we can define a woman as someone who earns less. It reminds me of Joe Biden saying that poor kids can be just as smart as white kids.

This certainly shows that nothing has changed, when they are asked about women, it is transwomen they want to talk about. Dreadful interview with no challenges… a miracle the question was even asked I guess. But as predicted, no real hope from Labour as to protection of women. We are not finishished with this so called debate yet , by any means.
does anyone have an up to date email for WH, the previous one keeps bouncing back? Feeling absolutely incensed..

Exactly this!! We know many women’s refuges are either captured or it’s a condition of funding that they accept TW. We know that women who complain are often told off by staff for making a complaint because ‘no men in here’. They are in an impossible situation

Sarah Owen was also elected co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on British Muslims in July 2022 and has tweeted about that and racial issues a lot. She has Malaysian Chinese heritage. Being pro-Trans and respecting Islam is a difficult path to tread. No mosques in the UK actually accept trans woman as women.

I would have asked Owen how Muslim women can use toilets/ changing rooms/refuges etc where they might encounter men when their religion says that is haram.

Plus the attempt to pass a conversion therapy bill is going to be fraught as far as Muslims are concerned.

I think Owen is going to have a tough time. Her language shows she is not a fanatic, but is trying to be kind. As time goes on things are only going to get more difficult.

I think Owen is going to have a tough time. Her language shows she is not a fanatic, but is trying to be kind. As time goes on things are only going to get more difficult.

Isn't she just saying the law? With a GRC men are legally women.

Rosie throwing some shade. Why only one co-chair mentioned Theodora Clarke a Tory MP who lost her seat, while the Labour MP who also worked on it is seemingly invisible.

Rosie Duffield MP

Lovely to hear my Birth Trauma APPG Co-Chair theodoraclarke getting a name check by the new Chair of Commonswomequ who mentioned our important work with BirthTrauma on BBCWomansHour
. I'll be continuing that work in Parliament as will Theo in various ways outside the House...

Meanwhile JKR is getting involved:

J.K. Rowling
So the interests of British women and girls are now in the hands of a politician who can't define what a woman is, but is certain men are women if they say they are. Fabulous news.

Which has resulted in an Express article.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1947797/jk-rowling-equalites-sarah-owen

Owen didn't mention a GRC though. She was way more vague than that. Because she wants to avoid the question. Only people are going to keep asking.

If she thinks men with a GRC are women legally that is a fair point. Up to a point as we know.

This is the problem, I didn't listen to it so am only guessing at what she said or what she meant. I think I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt.

It's difficult because the law says that men can legally be women so she can't really say otherwise.

As a recent constituent, I'm afraid to say she's a fully paid up TRA who will not meet gender critical feminists on this issue, who ignores the concerns in her own area of Muslim women and spouts more than the party line. She's always been a good litmus of actual labour policy, and it's not a good sign. She firmly believes in anti talking therapies policy, twaw, puberty blockers for kids, and says in writing that (this year) no trans identifying male should be excluded from any space on the basis of 'birth sex' and as a bonus thinks surrogacy is wonderful and progressive. This is a disastrous appointment for women.

No she didn't even get that far......she totally fudged and evaded the question.

Both of those responses are great. WTF is Owen doing not acknowledging her own Labour Party colleague?

I think she's been thrown under the bus by Kate Osborne......and offered the equalities gig as a chance for career advancement.

Anita Rani mentioned that the Conservatives wanted to clarify exactly what was meant by 'Sex' in the equalities act ( which would have ruled out the concept of legal sex and replaced it with biological sex when it came to single sex exemptions); but SO was keen to point out that the "equalities act already made things clear"....but was totally unclear how it did this...instead seeking to spin out the question and totally avoid answering it

Perhaps she should familiarise herself with the main legislation involved in her new job?

Thanks for that JKR article. We obviously had the exact same reaction listening to it.

To be honest the only positive (sadly) will be increasing violations of female rights until it becomes obvious that sex is a binary biology not feelings.

Transcribed from Woman's hour

AR: This is a contentious topic with strong feelings on all sides and so some of our listeners, in particular would like to know what is a woman to you?

SO: I think it's really sad that we're still at this stage of the debate to be honest, and that we have boiled down people's fears or concerns on both sides of the argument to body parts because basically we are so much more than what our bodies are and what a woman to me is is somebody that's going to be paid less than their male counterpart is somebody that's going to be less safe walking down the street it's going to be somebody that faces more barriers in the workplace and in education and in the health sector.

SO: These are the issues that are really facing women and I think when it comes to the trans debate we need to be able to have that in a kind respectful way, absolutely understanding and giving space to people's fears but also being able to understand that there are a group of people here that have been victimised, that find life incredibly difficult whether it comes to education, whether it comes to work and that actually this idea of pitting people against each other and having such polarized views means that we haven't seen any progress and nobody, nobody is better off for it.

SO: So my committee will be made up of people that have different views and particularly on this topic and it will be my job to make sure that we find a way through which again as I said means that I probably won't satisfy one group or the other but we need to see progress and that progress starts with respect, understanding and people being given a safe space to air their views.

AR: There's been much debate about how to balance the rights of different groups within society.

AR: Much of this has focused on access to women-only spaces such as toilets, domestic abuse refuges and prisons. The Conservatives have said they want to rewrite the equality act so that protections are based on a person's biological sex. Labour have said this isn't necessary but acknowledge more guidance is needed. Where would you draw the line on single sex spaces?

SO: I think the equality act already protects single sex spaces so I don't think that there is necessarily a need to open that up again because that will not help, I think, this debate at all and the protection of women in vulnerable situations.
When we look at domestic abuse refuges, for example, they can refuse entry to anybody, whether it's a woman who was born a woman or otherwise if they are deemed to be a threat to that person, to anybody else within that safe space.
I think there needs to be clarity on it and refuges and safe spaces need to be
given clarity on this and the backing of the government to say if somebody, regardless of who they are and their gender, is not safe within there or is going to be a threat to anybody else in there, then they can say no.

There are a group of people here that have been victimised, that find life incredibly difficult whether it comes to education, whether it comes to work

im assuming she’s not talking about all the women abused, doxxed and threatened by TRA here is she?? It’s men she’s talking about, the poooor men who only want everything women have for themselves

shes just absolutely pathetic - a TWAW handmaiden

AR: I guess the reason some people care so much is it's impacting their lives, single-sex spaces. Lets boil it down, if a trans woman has been in an abusive relationship, where do they go? And how do you ensure that women are also protected?

SO: And that's absolutely where we want to go with committee and make sure that we see that clarity and have people have those conversations in a respectful way because we haven't had that.
The idea that most of this debate has been done without trans women, no conversation about trans men at all either and that whenever anybody raises their concerns about safe spaces for women, they're also labelled as something else.
Actually, we need, this is very basic, but we need to be able to have this conversation in a much more adult way and I really do believe that select committees are the best place to have that.

AR: I mean, we know it's a contentious topic and one we will continue to discuss. What do you hope to achieve in your first year?

This had me shouting at the radio today! So disappointed to hear someone not be able to say what a woman is. Unless it’s that they are low paid. Not me. Perfectly high earning female thank you. My earning potential has naff all to do with my biological sex and I find it quite demeaning that it’s being used to describe women.

utter waffle trying to cover up a lack of basic science.

She talks about clarity......whilst talking the biggest load of fudge and stringing lots of meaningless sentences together to sound considered on the subject.

Embarrassing!

i do really wonder why on earth these 'women' might be paid less than their male counterparts or be 'less safe' than non women. Is it the frilly blouses or something?