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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm feeling overwhelmed about the world for women right now.

60 replies

NeverMindTheBackProblems · 05/09/2024 01:02

I'm just reading a news article about the horrific case of Gisele Pelicot. I can't actually put into words how I feel about it, it's just beyond horrific.
Women's voices silenced in Afghanistan. Literally not allowed to speak.
Payton McNabb being paralysed and having brain damage from being hit in the face from a ball hit from a transgender male.
Imane Khelif wearing a groin guard and sitting on the shoulders of his crew despite supposedly being a muslim woman.
Valentino Petrillo and Caster Semenya being natal women despite having fathered children.
All of the "this never happens" sex offenders giving advice and guidance to governments.
And yes, let's do something about VAWG but never actually doing anything while women continue to die at the hands of men. The latest UN figures show that 137 women across the world are killed every day by a partner or member of their own family – a total of 50,000 women a year murdered by people they know and should be able to trust. 80% of murders were committed by men in 2017.
I'm fucking sick of it. And I'm so fucking angry.

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 05/09/2024 10:57

Keepsmesane · 05/09/2024 03:29

No there’s nothing to do that will ever change the nature of MEN

But we can stop things like violent porn, perhaps. And stop using gender-neutral language that eradicates women. We could also value the things women do, like give birth - currently being a mother is equated with being a vegetable esp if you stay at home to rear your own children (thus also committing the crimes of being economically inactive and wasting your education - if you got one).
'Man' needs to cease being the default for human being, basically.
Which needs a complete change in culture.

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 05/09/2024 11:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2024 08:20

Not to forget the many fake feminist or feminist ally men who use their good guy status as a cover to prey on women and girls.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5150957-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault-pt-ii

I'm very suspicious of men who claim they're feminists... just let your behaviour speak for itself, or is that the problem?

Men who show respect through their actions - through what they do not what they say - are the good guys. I actually feel these men are a minority. They are the one's who don't immediately jump to NAMALT when a horrific act by a man is discussed, but act with genuine revulsion and disgust and concern for the female victim. Who would never dream of treating women that way. Somehow these men seem to be silenced in the media and 'progressive' circles.

Disturbia81 · 05/09/2024 11:09

I honestly think it would take something drastic like a drug that reduces testosterone in a healthy way, so they don't lose the good benefits the hormone brings. But how would we give it to them..
There are pills that make men calmer and less ragey used for other reasons, anti depressants etc so I think it could be possible. My friend was full of rage, anger, needed sex every day and all that was was a high sex drive. He needed to go on medication for something else and it stopped all the bad stuff.
I think testosterone is the root of so many issues in the world.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2024 11:10

I'm very suspicious of men who claim they're feminists... just let your behaviour speak for itself, or is that the problem?

Me too. It's an instant red flag for me. At best, they expect to start throwing their weight around and telling women what our rights should be. At worst, you have men like Gaiman.

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 05/09/2024 11:11

Porn online needs to be illegal. This is a basic and relatively easy step. I firmly believe that alone would do a lot to reduce VAWG. Why don't we try it and see?

We need to treat people selling and sharing porn online like terrorists. They are promoting violence against women.

Problem is not all men but far too many men in power LIKE violent and degrading porn. The good men and women politicians should step up and make a ban on online porn (with hefty, hefty financial penalties and prison sentences) happen.

annejumps · 05/09/2024 11:19

A ban on porn is just not going to happen.

Disturbia81 · 05/09/2024 11:21

annejumps · 05/09/2024 11:19

A ban on porn is just not going to happen.

It's not, and banning it doesn't take away the strong urges. The world has always been a dangerous place for women. Their testosterone needs reducing

TheStroppyFeminist · 05/09/2024 11:25

Flibflobflibflob · 05/09/2024 06:43

I used to roll my eyes at that Greer quote about women having no idea about how much men hate us. I am genuinely terrified for my daughter, I keep giving her pep talks about not taking shit from people. I’m scared that there will come a point where I can’t keep her safe, I am actually genuinely terrified. Increasingly I bounce between rage and despair.

Me too, I've been thinking the same this morning, what kind of world is it for women? And the answer is shit.

That French case is horrific. Not only that he did it but that over SEVENTY men participated, fucking disgusting and depressing. Those poor poor women (the daughter too).

Petitchat · 05/09/2024 11:34

NeverMindTheBackProblems · 05/09/2024 01:02

I'm just reading a news article about the horrific case of Gisele Pelicot. I can't actually put into words how I feel about it, it's just beyond horrific.
Women's voices silenced in Afghanistan. Literally not allowed to speak.
Payton McNabb being paralysed and having brain damage from being hit in the face from a ball hit from a transgender male.
Imane Khelif wearing a groin guard and sitting on the shoulders of his crew despite supposedly being a muslim woman.
Valentino Petrillo and Caster Semenya being natal women despite having fathered children.
All of the "this never happens" sex offenders giving advice and guidance to governments.
And yes, let's do something about VAWG but never actually doing anything while women continue to die at the hands of men. The latest UN figures show that 137 women across the world are killed every day by a partner or member of their own family – a total of 50,000 women a year murdered by people they know and should be able to trust. 80% of murders were committed by men in 2017.
I'm fucking sick of it. And I'm so fucking angry.

Me too. Tearful and so, so angry

Nellieinthebarn · 05/09/2024 11:50

I am 60, I fear for my daughter and daughter in law going about their daily business. I am terrified for my beautiful, strong, intelligent and currently happy granddaughters. They are 3 and 5, I wanted the world they grew up in to be better for women, not worse. I can only see repression, exploitation and misogyny becoming more and more entrenched.

They keep finding more ways to do it, who would have thought 20 years ago it would be acceptable for a man to just steal medals from women by simply saying 'I am a woman now'. Who could have imagined that other women would vociferously support this happening?

That young girls, who don't fit in with the currently acceptable way of being female, would be encouraged to see themselves as not girls at all. But some kind of failed boy, and to become a 'real' boy they must amputate and excise the parts that make them female. To sell these young women the lie that this will cure them of something that should be celebrated, not cured. There is nothing to cure, being an unusual girl is not a disease, its a gift you have to grow into.

I never used to hate men, I was able to believe that it wasn't all men, and even that it isn't most men. Now I am beginning to think that it is most men. Even if they don't actively participate in violence, suppression and exploitation, if they aren't speaking out and challenging it, they are complicit. They are endorsing and supporting it by inaction.

INeedAPensieve · 05/09/2024 12:26

It is overwhelming how constant it is. And what upsets me is just how many people shrug or switch off to it. I peaked about the harms of gender ideology over a year ago now due to two articles; Hadley Freeman's leaving article in The Guardian where a comment underneath led me to her article in Unherd about the real reason she'd left the paper and that BBC article about young lesbians being basically coerced and shamed into having sex with male people claiming a women's identity.

It's funny to me now that I was a lifelong reader of The Guardian and a lifelong viewer of the BBC and it was those two articles that pulled the rug from under my feet and then took me here to this wee corner of the internet and then made me realise actually how awful these media institutions are and how much they have betrayed women and girls.

And of course I didn't believe for a second that JKR had turned into some evil monster so I also went and read her essay explaining why she was fighting for women and girls rights and it all fell into place. I mean, there are days when I feel it would be nice to be still living in ignorance of it all but my hatred of male on female violence was always there and I always believed Germaine Greer (my mum was a fan of hers, same age, same era). It's a bit ironic really that it was a guardian article and a BBC article that pushed me to the truth. They'd be raging!

hihelenhi · 05/09/2024 12:36

We made many gains, but we are going backwards fast, in my opinion. Largely through sleepwalking, mainly through the last three decades where it was cool to be "post feminist" and pretend those rights are a given.

Never EVER take your rights for granted or be complacent about them, is my view. If your forebears had to fight for them, you can be sure that those whose power over you was loosened will be plotting to take them away as soon as possible. It's true for women's rights, and I'm pretty sure gay people who are currently wedded to the (often heterosexual) TQ+ are going to discover the same over the next few years.

BadSkiingMum · 05/09/2024 13:07

For me, I think the NYE mass sexual assaults in Germany, December 2015 were the early warning sign. I had read about it on Mumsnet in the immediate aftermath (reported by Mumsnetters living in Germany I think) but the UK media coverage was far less than I expected. And then came that Guardian article....

annejumps · 05/09/2024 13:18

Men en masse are not going to lower their testosterone.

FiveFindOutersAndDog · 05/09/2024 13:29

Disturbia81 · 05/09/2024 11:09

I honestly think it would take something drastic like a drug that reduces testosterone in a healthy way, so they don't lose the good benefits the hormone brings. But how would we give it to them..
There are pills that make men calmer and less ragey used for other reasons, anti depressants etc so I think it could be possible. My friend was full of rage, anger, needed sex every day and all that was was a high sex drive. He needed to go on medication for something else and it stopped all the bad stuff.
I think testosterone is the root of so many issues in the world.

Blocking testosterone does not reduce men's bad behaviour.
It's changes them in a very negative way which I've found out first hand because of my DH serious medical condition.
He's become very irritable and snappy, can now be exceptionally rude to me in public. No sex drive, no affection, very little physical contact. Now has osteoporosis, has lost so much muscle tone and put on weight.
Other health risk he's not had so far:-
Diabetes
Cardiovascular disease
Dementia
Depression and anxiety

Other solutions are needed. Parents need to stop idolising their sons. So many families I know where the son (or one of the sons) is the favourite of the mother (maybe the father too) and they can be spoilt, entitled and damaged. We women also need to be very choosy who we have children with, avoiding the aggressive manipulative men. Know our worth.

CitizenZ · 05/09/2024 14:45

It's getting beyond repair...

For a bit of downtime, I would go on a website called 9gag. It was a site for Memes and was quite funny. I would hazard a guess it was/is around 95% used by males, majority of them young and from all around the world. A few years ago it was infiltrated by Incels. Slowly but surely the content began to change and now it's just full of women hating propaganda with a few funny things in between. I still go on it, but my time is spent arguing with these lads in the comment section, I don't know why I bother, if anything they just double down on their absolute hatred of women and feminism.

OIlive · 05/09/2024 15:43

CitizenZ · 05/09/2024 14:45

It's getting beyond repair...

For a bit of downtime, I would go on a website called 9gag. It was a site for Memes and was quite funny. I would hazard a guess it was/is around 95% used by males, majority of them young and from all around the world. A few years ago it was infiltrated by Incels. Slowly but surely the content began to change and now it's just full of women hating propaganda with a few funny things in between. I still go on it, but my time is spent arguing with these lads in the comment section, I don't know why I bother, if anything they just double down on their absolute hatred of women and feminism.

Sounds a dreadful website and I've no intention of looking at it. Why would you do that??

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/09/2024 16:02

BadSkiingMum · 05/09/2024 13:07

For me, I think the NYE mass sexual assaults in Germany, December 2015 were the early warning sign. I had read about it on Mumsnet in the immediate aftermath (reported by Mumsnetters living in Germany I think) but the UK media coverage was far less than I expected. And then came that Guardian article....

That was when I stopped reading the guardian. They've just got worse and worse.

guinnessguzzler · 05/09/2024 16:18

I have just been reading about the case of Gisèle Pélicot, it is absolutely appalling. That her husband would do that and all these men colluding with him. Even a neighbour of hers. Just horrific. What an incredible woman to waive her anonymity and stand up in court to get justice after going through that. I honestly can't imagine how she is keeping going but she is because that's what women do.

sunnydays1364 · 05/09/2024 18:29

I think what is so very concerning is the amount of people that make out it's not all men and try to minimise the problem. But the problem isn't just the very worst men in society like Gisele Pelicots husband and the many willing volunteers he seemed to easily recruit.

It's all the men that would be willing to do something like that if they thought that they wouldn't get caught or thought they could do it without repercussions. All the men that commit crimes against women, murder, assault, stalking. Most crimes dont even get reported. The men that watch extreme porn, or many argue porn in general, which is in the millions. And then finally the men that deny that it's a male issue, that seek to suggest it's just someone with mental health or the narrative that both sexes commit crimes, they're not allies. And a lot of men fall into the latter categories.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2024 18:34

AIBU thread with some NAMALT

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/5158709-to-wonder-thinking-about-this-awful-french-rape-case-if-humans-are-just-rotten

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 05/09/2024 20:09

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/09/2024 18:34

AIBU thread with some NAMALT

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/5158709-to-wonder-thinking-about-this-awful-french-rape-case-if-humans-are-just-rotten

I'm only surprised that it took 8 replies for first NAMALT-adjacent comment and almost 20 before someone chimed in with "pretty awful women".

It's a shame that the posters who make that sort of remark don't seem to notice or admire the courage of women like GP who are prepared to stand up for the rest of women.

I sometimes wonder how many women need to cultivate cognitive dissonance on some matters to be able to move through the world with any degree of comfort.

Disturbia81 · 06/09/2024 09:49

@FiveFindOutersAndDog I literally said if it could be done in a healthy way so the benefits of the hormone weren't lost but it took away the worst bits. But no-one would ever spend time and money developing something like that

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/09/2024 10:47

I sometimes wonder how many women need to cultivate cognitive dissonance on some matters to be able to move through the world with any degree of comfort.

Very very many of us, I think.