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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Children protesting at DfE

134 replies

MyOliveDog · 29/08/2024 00:47

Shocked to see this thread on X about children protesting at DfE and planning to stay out all night asking for random adults to go and provide “protection”.
https://x.com/mforstater/status/1828912578631725277?s=46&t=0kj2teDK1iyM7jd4u9rCqQXthread

So many questions.

x.com

https://x.com/mforstater/status/1828912578631725277?s=46&t=0kj2teDK1iyM7jd4u9rCqQ

OP posts:
FrancescaContini · 29/08/2024 09:44

ApocalipstickNow · 29/08/2024 09:23

Francesca - I’m not sure it’s infantilising to recognise not all adults have developed critical thinking skills (and I certainly don’t think mine are that sharp, so I’m not judging anyone). I’m not even sure it’s right to assume we (as a society) have always all had that ability. There’s always been received wisdom and blind acceptance.

Look at how things like “we only use 10% of our brain” or “drink a hot cuppa on a hot day to cool down” are trotted out as fact. A lot of people just accept what people tell them without asking questions.

So I am not talking about the critical thinking skills necessary to compare one Shakespeare production of Hamlet with another. Perhaps “common sense judgment” might be better. So I’d hope that most parents have the common sense to see that their 13 year old son or daughter is spending hours online and to ask himself or herself:
What are they looking at?
What’s it about?
Perhaps it’s time to get them off the screen and do something else? Play football or make a cake or help me with the shopping?
Why are they talking so much about their identity? What’s this all about? Where are they learning about this?

And to have some conversations with their child. Isn’t this just part of parenting your child?

JeremiahBullfrog · 29/08/2024 09:52

Why don't they just go home? Presumably there aren't any DfE staff there in the middle of the night to actually notice them.

Chersfrozenface · 29/08/2024 09:55

A pity I don't live in London. I'd be up for a couple of hours between, say, 1 and 4 a.m. giving them a comprehensive lecture.

ApocalipstickNow · 29/08/2024 09:56

FrancescaContini · 29/08/2024 09:44

So I am not talking about the critical thinking skills necessary to compare one Shakespeare production of Hamlet with another. Perhaps “common sense judgment” might be better. So I’d hope that most parents have the common sense to see that their 13 year old son or daughter is spending hours online and to ask himself or herself:
What are they looking at?
What’s it about?
Perhaps it’s time to get them off the screen and do something else? Play football or make a cake or help me with the shopping?
Why are they talking so much about their identity? What’s this all about? Where are they learning about this?

And to have some conversations with their child. Isn’t this just part of parenting your child?

Well, yes, but there’s a lot of not very good parents out there.

But I don’t think it’s just screens anymore. It’s in schools and friendship groups. You see it on here. Posters (maybe not in good faith) telling parents there kids will cut them off (even though they’re only 14 and still don’t know how to use a washing machine) and leave home.

I think Gaspode’s post gets a lot of it right.

Helleofabore · 29/08/2024 09:59

FrancescaContini · 29/08/2024 09:44

So I am not talking about the critical thinking skills necessary to compare one Shakespeare production of Hamlet with another. Perhaps “common sense judgment” might be better. So I’d hope that most parents have the common sense to see that their 13 year old son or daughter is spending hours online and to ask himself or herself:
What are they looking at?
What’s it about?
Perhaps it’s time to get them off the screen and do something else? Play football or make a cake or help me with the shopping?
Why are they talking so much about their identity? What’s this all about? Where are they learning about this?

And to have some conversations with their child. Isn’t this just part of parenting your child?

I would think this is part of parenting, yes.

Helleofabore · 29/08/2024 10:01

Chersfrozenface · 29/08/2024 09:55

A pity I don't live in London. I'd be up for a couple of hours between, say, 1 and 4 a.m. giving them a comprehensive lecture.

oh! I might be able to fit a night in as well. Or maybe we can sing our teachings in a lullaby so that they might be more gentle to their ears? Perhaps we can get just the right riff to overwrite the mantras.

Beeranddresses · 29/08/2024 10:01

McLeodIsPronouncedMcloud · 29/08/2024 06:50

This is their list of demands from the X thread, in case some don’t have accounts…

I agree with them that their identities should not be subject to external validation! I presume this means they are cool with not being allowed in spaces, services and sports which are not for their sex, and they accept people may correctly sex them?

lcakethereforeIam · 29/08/2024 10:04

Their logo appears to be a pawn with a poor attempt to dress it up as something it isn't. I find that's possibly more appropriate than they realise.

quantumbutterfly · 29/08/2024 10:05

McLeodIsPronouncedMcloud · 29/08/2024 06:50

This is their list of demands from the X thread, in case some don’t have accounts…

Well that sounds like most of us as teenagers.

Wish I could find the poster who personified trans rights as stamping it's feet, going to it's room and slamming the door.

Helleofabore · 29/08/2024 10:05

No Beer the writers of the leaflet did not think this through at all. They repeated some kind of sound nice mantra that doesn't quite do what they believe it does.

This comes from 'quotebabbling'. A term I saw Dr Hilton use recently and it is very apt.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/08/2024 10:06

A pity I don't live in London. I'd be up for a couple of hours between, say, 1 and 4 a.m. giving them a comprehensive lecture.

Sounds like a good idea! At least they'd be safe, even though they wouldn't think so Confused

DeanElderberry · 29/08/2024 10:12

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RoyalCorgi · 29/08/2024 10:17

Reading the Munroe Bergdorf post, the "kids" are about 16-17. If they're all planning on staying there overnight (and goodness knows why they'd want to do that when there's nobody in the building, as a PP pointed out), then I'd have thought they'd be relatively safe. The concern would be if it was just two or three of them.

Having said all that, it's not something that as a parent I would allow a teenager to do, and obviously the idea of asking random adults to come and watch them is just mad because no sensible adult is going to spend their nights outside the DfE building supervising a bunch of teenagers. The only adults likely to respond with any enthusiasm are the ones that mean harm.

DeanElderberry · 29/08/2024 10:18

I wonder has anyone told Grin about the high risk of premature osteoporosis that goes with blocking female puberty, and the physical limitation that goes with it?

timenowplease · 29/08/2024 10:24

A bunch of middle class white kids by the looks of it. I wonder do they realise?

Thingybob · 29/08/2024 10:31

timenowplease · 29/08/2024 10:24

A bunch of middle class white kids by the looks of it. I wonder do they realise?

And also female.

I guess the boys that think they are girls are too fragile to join in

quantumbutterfly · 29/08/2024 10:33

NitroNine · 29/08/2024 06:01

Outrageous levels of white MC privilege on display, matched only by the transperbole 🙄

There are homeless children in London who are constantly unsafe. Who know you sleep during the day in busy places & hope for the fecking best. How have they got a whole gang of them there & no watch system of their own? What use is an adult or two going to be? 🙄 Absolute selfishness & potentially they’re diverting resources from people who actually need them - eg technically the Night Stars don’t work that area but what’s the betting someone’s been detailed to babysit?

Btw I meant to say thanks for the link to night stars. I wasn't aware of their work.

DrudgeJedd · 29/08/2024 10:36

It's noticeable that this girl-led protest is mostly crafting and doing the Time Warp, not a lot of chucking bottles of piss over themselves, punching faces or bomb threats.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/08/2024 10:37

DeanElderberry · 29/08/2024 10:18

I wonder has anyone told Grin about the high risk of premature osteoporosis that goes with blocking female puberty, and the physical limitation that goes with it?

I know nothing about Grin but I'm getting the same sort of vibes from what I recall of that Guardian article as I get from the ineffable Freddy claiming that nobody ever explained that having a double mastectomy would mean Freddy would be unable to breastfeed. I mean, come on.

timenowplease · 29/08/2024 10:38

Thingybob · 29/08/2024 10:31

And also female.

I guess the boys that think they are girls are too fragile to join in

Yes quite. Girls being kind. Sleeping on the streets, needing protection.

The guys are on holiday, chillin at home gaming or whatever and sleeping 'til the afternoon.

Gender non-conforming indeed.

RedToothBrush · 29/08/2024 10:43

DeanElderberry · 29/08/2024 10:18

I wonder has anyone told Grin about the high risk of premature osteoporosis that goes with blocking female puberty, and the physical limitation that goes with it?

Climbing plus osteoporosis.

Good combo that.

DeanElderberry · 29/08/2024 10:48

It's so sad. Grin as a physically strong young woman climbing and exploring the world would be lovely, particularly with appropriate safety gear (the obvious problem with upper-arm muscle fatigue during the stunt in the video was disturbing). Grin confined to a wheelchair by 30 with skeletomuscular deteriorations, like a transman known to me, less so, whatever Grin's gender identity at that stage,

ScoldsBridle · 29/08/2024 11:10

They’re all having a great time by the looks of it. Listen to their polite, middle-class voices - I’m sure some parents are parked up round the corner keeping a watchful eye from a distance. They’re well on board the social-activism train now, heading off to youth parliaments (if they’re not already members of such things) meeting up with Just Oil and Greta Thunberg acolytes - travelling to far-flung climes to protest at conferences etc… I’m sure some of them might be more timid/ND types who won’t tread that path because of social anxiety and ill-health - but there’s your usual core of middle-class girls that seem to be leading the charge. But obviously they might be men - SO hard to tell with the masks.

And the adults behind it? Jude Guaitamacchi was prominently visible at the other roof-top protest. Another adult TRA who seems to be wanting to make a name for themselves and was at the roof-top protest, is transwoman Olivia Campbell Cavendish. An interesting character who apparently is, or is going to be, the 1st UK Black Transwoman barrister. They were everywhere a few weeks ago, showing off their new ‘boobs’ on Insta and saying how they were proud of them, and not going to hold back from showing them off. Images on their Insta of them topless cupping their breasts. Nancy ‘Stonewall’ laughing about how Olivia had flashed their tits at them at Pride.

I haven’t seen Olivia at this protest yet but maybe that’s because there’s a lot of controversy surrounding them. Olivia has accused a well-known transman Kenny Ethan Jones of SA and DV. Another transwoman, Charlie Craggs, has steadfastly defended Kenny calling into question Olivia’s version of events. It’s all very unpleasant and confusing with accusations of ‘toxic masculinity’ being levelled at transman Kenny. I think someone can see that the optics of having Olivia at this protest may be a distraction. I see Munroe B has gone along and had photographs with the kids and posted up that statement on their Insta - probably hoping that their bigger profile will garner more attention.

I have sympathy with these children. They’ve been told that these drugs are the answer. Some of their parents have probably gone to great lengths (and expense) to get them on the puberty-blocker pathway. In their eyes, society simply has it in for them, and are denying them their rightful medications out of plain spite.

It doesn’t look like the mainstream media are at all interested either. I just hope this doesn’t encourage them to take more self-endangering action. I hope the adults behind-the-scenes are truly looking to protect them.

KielderWater · 29/08/2024 11:12

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 09:00

The problem is ‘resilience’ can be another version of ‘be kind’; girls objecting to boys in their changing room? They should be more resilient!

Only if applied unequally. Obviously those boys need more resilience to be gender nonconforming within their own sex; more resilience to 'misgendering' etc.

only if applied unequally

That never happens 🤔

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 11:34

@KielderWater - yeah. See also tolerance and acceptance.