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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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3 questions for GC women

1000 replies

ChirpyFinch · 28/08/2024 00:27

As the title says, three questions for the women in this chat.

  1. Do you think the majority of people are gender critical, and why/why not?

  2. Globally, the right wing is more vocally gender critical than the left. They are also far more likely to be regressive on a range of women’s issues like abortion and anti-gay. Why do you think they agree with GCs on this one issue but disagree on so much else (if you think they do?)

  3. How many trans people do you estimate there are globally?

OP posts:
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37
WarriorN · 28/08/2024 09:37

I've opened a new note on my phone entitled mumsnet recipes.

Helleofabore · 28/08/2024 09:38

"and follow the Money."

No, thank you. That Money is most definitely NOT someone I want to follow. It makes me ill every time I see his name.

JaxiiTaxii · 28/08/2024 09:41

I haven't RTFT and assume from recipes it's all gone a bit 'in bad faith' but question two brought this to mind from my screenshot vault.

3 questions for GC women
DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 09:41

I know, that's the normal human response to him and his works, but he is critical to the understanding of a lot of the cobblers spoken and written about this newly invented concept 'gender' in the last half century.

Maybe knowing just how tainted its root is might make some of its enthusiasts have a little think.

DrBlackbird · 28/08/2024 09:42

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 28/08/2024 08:09

It’s wife-eyed now actually

<helpful >

I’m now picturing ‘wife-eyed’ as a woman looking all innocent and demure whilst asking a faux innocent question in an effort to fish out the gotcha answer they seek/expect.

Sort of like this thread.

I wonder if the OP feels that they have the confirmation biased answer that they sought?

WarriorN · 28/08/2024 09:42

I suppose Jammy dodgers identify as jam drops @Helleofabore

theilltemperedclavecinist · 28/08/2024 09:46

GC feminists believe that women are oppressed on the basis of their body type and reproductive potential inter alia by the imposition of contingent cultural sex-norms.

Religious conservatives believe that the oppressive sex-norms of their particular culture are ordained by God and morally correct.

Trans people believe that their true sex - as revealed to them by a declared subjective 'gender identity' is not that to which their body type testifies. A proposition which is unfalsifiable and therefore not worth debating.

They upset religious conservatives by adopting cross-sex cultural norms (in pursuit of 'transition').

Transwomen anger feminists by claiming concessions designed to mitigate for existing sex inequality (all-women shortlists and awards).

And they enrage everybody by claiming protections which women (but not transwomen) need, for safety and fairness, because of their relative physical inferiority and vulnerability. Thus destroying those protections utterly.

No decent person, from Germaine Greer to the Pope, wants to see people bullying the physically and socially vulnerable, just because they can.

GoldViper · 28/08/2024 09:46

DrBlackbird · 28/08/2024 09:42

I’m now picturing ‘wife-eyed’ as a woman looking all innocent and demure whilst asking a faux innocent question in an effort to fish out the gotcha answer they seek/expect.

Sort of like this thread.

I wonder if the OP feels that they have the confirmation biased answer that they sought?

Maybe they've slinked off back to r eddit?

CautiousLurker · 28/08/2024 09:47

‘GC’ as a label is about as precise and defined as ‘Christian’ or ‘animal lover’ or ‘British’. All of these words are umbrella terms that bracket diverse groups of people together who are inferred to have a vague consensus on one issue, where in fact they often don’t.

I actually don’t like to use the term GC to describe myself as I find, semantically, the term ‘gender critical’ is a lazy and reductive short-hand phrase. I am not ‘critical’ of ‘gender’ - I just reject the imposition of socially constructed roles on the basis of one’s biological plumbing and utterly eschew gender ideology. The theories, the research performed to ‘prove’ it and the academics performing the research are all flawed.

However, I sincerely believe in the biological fact that sex is immutable. I believe that people under the ‘trans’ umbrella are a mixed and diverse group of people who have one (or more) of many differing psychological and social problems who - in many but not all cases - deserve compassion and support to work their way through their issues. I am not ‘right wing’ or leftist in my politics, having basically flip-flopped like a dying fish either side of the centrist line according to each specific issue, though I do believe that the central line feels as though it is shifting rightwards.

I could care less who people sleep with, how many, or how they dress. I won’t stand for Islamophobia or anti semitism but feel religious extremism of all colours is dangerous and is one of the reasons that, whilst I largely agree with freedom of religion, I am personally atheist. It has no place in policy making or state governance. I personally could not have an abortion, but I have and will always fight for the right of other women and girls to have utter control over their bodies and to retain their reproductive rights. I think gender roles are socially constructed and vary according to time/culture but are often very much attached to or flow from biological sex differences - and from entrenched patriarchal systems that underly most societies despite lip service/virtue signalling that tries to market the idea that this is no longer the case.

Having been raised in a mixed race/faith family but also having a very fragile, conservative British female in-laws, I believe women are entitled to single sex spaces (loos, changing room, prisons), sports and should be able to ask for same sex intimate care. It appals me that my muslim aunties cannot go swimming and expect privacy or that my 83 year old MiL no longer feels she can use the changing rooms at Marks & Sparks. It appals me even more that my fragile 19yo autie DD is afraid of being female.

Am I GC? Within the wider definition yes, it would no doubt be applied to/imposed upon me. But I prefer to describe myself as a sex-realist, gender ideology-rejecting, feminist.

CautiousLurker · 28/08/2024 09:48

…but if anyone has a good cheesecake recipe, please share…

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 09:52

Maybe they've slinked off back to r eddit?

nah, they're frantically cutting and pasting and typing illogical and mis-spelled links in an effort to complete the assignment they've had all summer to work on before returning to their educational institution. It would be particularly lovely if that was Aston.

Tmpnmc86 · 28/08/2024 09:53

I used to have a good recipe for a ginger cake made with lime marmalade but I lost it a few phones back.

I'd much appreciate it if anyone can supply their recipe.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/08/2024 09:53

Anyhoo, back to more important issues... Fabulous recipes! When are we publishing our cookery book?

There sooo needs to be an FWR cook book.

DrBlackbird · 28/08/2024 09:54

GoldViper · 28/08/2024 09:46

Maybe they've slinked off back to r eddit?

I’m thinking they’ve slunk back to Aston now they’ve collected enough data for something. Hmmm, makes me wonder if a researcher posts a bad faith faux question on FWR and receives replies, would that mean in doing so they can circumvent MN T&Cs and use those responses? 🤔

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 09:57

All the lovely cakes will make that harder work than it would have been in the olden days (a few months back) when the earnest seekers after truth routinely demanded CAKE CENSORSHIP.

Thebossofhim · 28/08/2024 09:59

From a very old Bero baking book!

3 questions for GC women
AllieDeCorbeau · 28/08/2024 09:59
  1. Do you think the majority of people are gender critical, and why/why not?
    that depends on how you define gender critical. Do most people actually believe that people can change sex? no. Most people are being nice or playing along out of fear or they are just going with the flow because they have other things they are concerned about.

  2. Globally, the right wing is more vocally gender critical than the left. They are also far more likely to be regressive on a range of women’s issues like abortion and anti-gay. Why do you think they agree with GCs on this one issue but disagree on so much else (if you think they do?)
    I don't think it's a simple as claiming right and left anymore. There are a lot of people who are sex realist who are left on a lot of other issues. The goalpost has moved.
    interestingly, I've met a lot more people we would call right wing in the last couple years and most of them are either pro gay or indifferent.
    I think the right is softening to a lot of issues. But yes, there is still much on which we disagree. disagreement is OK though.

  3. How many trans people do you estimate there are globally?
    it seems like a lot more than the claimed one percent. However, this is going by their own definition that anyone who claims to be trans is. I think this is over simplistic. As there are inevitably grifters, charlatans, confused, adolescence, and adults, and a myriad of other categories.

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 10:02

I love the Be-Ro book so much, it was my first recipe book - mine was an old brown edition with a picture on the back of a gymslip-wearing girl who was a 'big girl' to me when I first used it, though undoubtedly a 'little girl' now - aged 10 or 11 maybe?

JaxiiTaxii · 28/08/2024 10:03

Thebossofhim · 28/08/2024 09:59

From a very old Bero baking book!

With the caps it reads like the author is shouting 😂

BAKE IN A HOT OVEN!!

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 10:08

There she is. Maybe she's nearer 9 - but her sophistication, savoir-faire and culinary skills made her seem older.

Aspiration living.

3 questions for GC women
CautiousLurker · 28/08/2024 10:08

Never heard of Be-Ro until this thread - we had the Good Housekeeping recipe book growing up. I bought a copy when I was at university (so it was probs 20yo by then) and we still use it today. Just looked it up on Amazon and it’s the ‘step by step’ version today with over 650 recipes… will gift my kids a copy if I ever get to kick them out.

Thebossofhim · 28/08/2024 10:14

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 10:02

I love the Be-Ro book so much, it was my first recipe book - mine was an old brown edition with a picture on the back of a gymslip-wearing girl who was a 'big girl' to me when I first used it, though undoubtedly a 'little girl' now - aged 10 or 11 maybe?

I just checked mine, its from 1950, I think it was my grandmothers. If yours is the same, look at page 4😂

EnfysPreseli · 28/08/2024 10:19

Right, so is the GC position that gender itself as a categorisation tool is meaningless? Or that it has meaning but that meaning is inherently tied to your sex?

This makes no sense. Has OP not understood the difference between sex and gender? Or simply has no idea what gender critical means and is trying unsuccessfully to be a clever clogs?

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 10:21

Page 4 of mine is about gas ovens

Page 47 features a splendid array of cakes made from 10 shillings worth of ingredients, including eggs at three shillings and sixpence a dozen. That's 50p and 17.5p, young people.

1957 edition, twentieth million.

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2024 10:23

My GC position is that I was a feminist before gender was invented as a thing that could be applied to humans or other living things, and I do not think it is a word that has ever been helpful in advancing women's rights.

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