3 questions for GC women

[ChirpyFinch]

As the title says, three questions for the women in this chat.

1. Do you think the majority of people are gender critical, and why/why not?

2. Globally, the right wing is more vocally gender critical than the left. They are also far more likely to be regressive on a range of women’s issues like abortion and anti-gay. Why do you think they agree with GCs on this one issue but disagree on so much else (if you think they do?)

3. How many trans people do you estimate there are globally?

@SpidersAreShitheads

chocolatecoveredkatie.com/keto-cake-recipe/

On app can't edit!

No, I haven't rtft but here's something that might help clarify your confusion op:

Bernard - I don’t think it’s surprising at all. Gender critical is a term only really used by those actively involved. I see it all the time on here and on Twitter but I’ve never ever encountered it in real life. If you don’t visit fwr on mumsnet or follow feminists on Twitter you might well never encounter it. And it isn’t a self explanatory term - it could mean you criticise people of a particular gender, or you criticise the concept of gender, or the stereotypes of gender. But I think most people would just glaze over- it sounds just like one of the many labels some of us are so keen to avoid. Its negative and harsh sounding too, which is always off putting.

Neither. Not even vegetarian. Would describe myself as a plant-based omnivore, in the original sense coined by Michael Pollan ("Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.")

May I posit here that the term plant-based needs rescuing from its appropriation by vegans, or should I wait until midnight tonight?

How much is a cup?

It was a tragic mistake to ever permit the word 'gender' to be used about a social and political issue (feminism) that was all about sex. Because gender is meaningless except as a feature of the grammar of some languages, it has become something project diverse meanings onto.

The adoption in the 1970s by some academic feminists of the word 'gender' to avoid using 'sex' has caused nothing but trouble.

PS, that is a criticism of 'gender'. A gender critical post.

Gender, whichever way you look at it, is a sexist & homophobic concept that the world would be better off without.

Homophobic because being LGB is all about which sex you’re attracted to, & gender ideology tries to override that.

That's because the term gender critical has come to mean believing you can't change sex, and that it's important.

when in fact it's just a cornerstone of feminism. Critical of the social stereotypes imposed on people. Women must be like this, men must be like that.

Feminism, obviously will not agree with expected gender stereotypes of what women are supposed to like. They've been opposing them since forever.

Transgenderism upholds those stereotypes by claiming that if a man 'feels' like a woman, then he must be one. And, of course, the entire thing falls apart when you ask what that feeling is.

Because it will be based on sexism.

That's why feminists were the first people to realise the implications of transgenderism. Having a finely honed radar for spotting sexism at fifty paces.

Feminist disagree with transgenderism because it's sexist, but also not real. A lot of other people understand that it's not real, but don't necessarily grasp the sexism.

@Boiledbeetle sorry to hear about the "nil food and clear liquids", hope you have a quick recovery.

Quite. There needs to be another category added
AGPs.- "I love wearing an apron and rubber gloves and being ordered to do the washing up, just like a woman, (but I won't actually do the washing up, we all know that don't we?)"

Oh and @ChirpyFinch the reason why it's financially lucrative is because it is monetising sexism, homophobia and teenage angst.

Butch lesbian? Must be a boy. Don't like your boobs? Must be a boy. Don't like being objectified? become a boy.

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of kids showing up at gender clinics are girls

Definitely think there could be a FWR recipe book.
We should also have a permanent recipe thread stickied up to decamp to overnight. Maybe we could fix it so every nighttime post on that recipe thread, automatically posts a link to ‘break it down for me’ on the thread that sent us to the recipe thread.. win win

Ooh, there was a brilliant recipe thread a few years back. Quick, family recipes which really worked. I still use them. I can't remember what it was called though.

I'll dig out one of the recipes and do a search later.

I am not "gender critical" the way the extreme right are. My only concern about trans people is any practical impact on "natal women." Otherwise I think trans people should be able to live fulfilled,happy, safe, fearless lives completely free from any form of harassment.

I would think most people don’t believe anyone can change sex. When I hear people say “he’s a woman now” what they seem to mean is “this person has made some changes to themself, maybe superficial, maybe surgical and wants to be referred to as the opposite sex.”

At a very basic level there are those who will say “that’s not my business, live and let live.” And those who make a moral judgement on those wishing to be seen as the opposite sex.

I doubt most feminists concern themselves with the morality issue until it gets to issues of fairness (eg women’s sports) or privacy/safety (changing rooms, prisons, counselling etc.)

I doubt anyone could put a figure on how many people in the world are trans without having any reliable statistics or having a proper definition of what it means to be trans (and non binary?)

OP, gender critical is an adjective that - like female - becomes derogatory when used as a noun.

The problem with the Forstater defintion is that it picked out the limited aspects that were pertinent to that particular legal case, but missed out the actual gender criticism part.

@LiterallyOnFire I'll stick my cake recipe on Bunbury in case this one vanishes.

Not all

Here's my shortbread recipe

150g plain flower
100g butter chilled and cubed
50g caster sugar

Put in a bowl and rub the flour and sugar in to the butter until it looks like breadcrumbs.

Then squeeze together until it looks like dough.

I then roll it out like a sausage and cut into 1 inch slices. Flatten them with a fork, put n a greased baking tray. Bake at 170 for 15 - 20 mins.

Although your question did remind me of the woman in Pride who had heard all lesbians are vegetarian.

@DeanElderberry I was wondering similar last night - but want going to get out of bed to return to the thread with it.

If grammarians had decided to call the flavours of nouns up and down, or carrot and strawberry, or vux and hrith, or anything instead of masculine and feminine, and therefore when people got squeamish about saying 'sex' they didnt have a ready alternative, and therefore when feminist started discussing sex role sterotypes they'd used a word that wasn't so readily confisable with sex - perhaps we'd have avoided most of this mess.

Data point: I'm vegetarian with a dairy allergy, so not vegan but eat a lot of vegan-labelled food - especially when out.

Although your question did remind me of the woman in Pride who had heard all lesbians are vegetarian.



@BernardBlacksMolluscs you're right. I apologise. Reeducation camp for me.

There was a in there @sashh which disappeared when I @ ed you. Weird...

thinking about 0.3% seems a bit high. My small town and its hinterland have about 12,000 people, and there are 3 adult men who habitually appear in clothes originally cut for women, wigs, makeup etc - generally far more flamboyant than anything a woman would wear. Also less well laundered, but I don't want to project their grubbiness onto all men with their clothing habits.

I have no idea how many teenage girls or boys are adopting a trans identity as a way of coping with the challenges of puberty. If there are any fully adult transmen I don't know them.

I know the figures would probably be higher in a city, but even so, maybe I should have guessed 99.95% not going in for stereotyped presentations, and the same 60:40 split regarding own chromosomes/opposite chromosomes.

Not very many anyway.

Meanwhile, in the same town, hundreds of us happily go shopping, meet our pals, play and support sports, go to church, with the short hairstyles we've had since the 70s, our trousers and flat shoes, our minimal and absent makeup, and our fleeces and rainjackets in any size that fits us, with no doubt among anyone that we're women who look like women.

Cake also here for @LiterallyOnFire as I can't tag her on Bunbury.

Gluten free cake, as promised on the latest disingenuous questions thread.

• 6 medium.eggs, separated
• 100g caster sugar
• 100g ground almonds
• 100g dark chocolate, grated

For the topping

• 1/2 pint double cream (single.works too, gives a lighter, more 'mousse' texture)
• 100g dark chcolate, melted.

Grease and line a 9" springform tin. Preheat oven to gas 3.

Beat the egg whites to stiff peaks, and whisk in the sugar.

Beat the yolks until pale and frothy, then stir in the chocolate and almonds.

Fold 2 spoons of the whites into the yolks to loosen them, then very gently fold the yolk mix into the remaining whites.

Pour into tin, level, bake until it passes the skewer test - approx 50 mins.

Allow to cool in tin - it will sink, don't panic - before removing.

When cake is fully cool, whip cream, beat in melted chocolate, smooth over cake.

We might well, but the person who started using the word gender (or gender role) in this way was John Money, definitely not a feminist, and a man with his own disturbing agendas, and it seems unlikely that the ensuing confusion was accidental.

I increasingly feel that when examining the history of genderism we need to follow the money and follow the Money.

I'm sure there used to be a word for it.