Taiwan Tries to Silence Fair Play For Women

[mb2512cat]

Fair Play For Women has been approached by the Taiwan embassy in the UK to remove their posts describing Olympic boxer Lin Yu-ting as ‘male’.

Dear God, they just need to show us the karyotype results with ‘XX’ and this all goes away.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2024/08/16/taiwan-womens-right-campaigners-gender-row-boxer/

https://x.com/fairplaywomen/status/1824478183422402569?s=46&t=WBUCdrv9BwgG-lsI3-uNuQ

No. That they are men (XY chromosomes!) with a genetic mutation that may make people erroneously think that they are female when they are born.

I am human with a genetic mutation that (if we used teeth counting as a way of defining human vs Zogite) may erroneously make people think that I am a Zogite.

@Mumofteenandtween sorry, completely misunderstood your post and read it the other way around. Clearly need more coffee!

Well this is chilling.

Your point about the Adam's apple got me curious so I googled imaged both boxers and trachea shave images.
They both look like they have had the operation.
If you look at images of trachea shave the results look like the muscle looking part is still there but the point part of the Addams apple has been removed. Both boxers look like that. They have the big muscle part but not the pointy part of a male neck.

Wow it is like you live in a totally different reality.

Here in the real world;

There are only two relevant factors they would be testing, testosterone levels and genetic make up, there probably are other things to test but these two are easy to test and will provide you with guaranteed proof of someone's sex.

As far as I know the completely independent (what evidence do you have these two labs had some kind of incentive to find an Algerian and a Taiwanese boxer were in the wrong sex category?) laboratories tested the boxers genetics, and found they were both men and they were disqualified.

No one would let them box women, even in training, as they were injuring women, as one would expect when a guy punches a woman except the (strongly rumored to be corrupt) international Olympics committee, who said it was up to individual countries to decide who they wanted to compete (no issue there right?)

Since seizing the top prize, women who had fought them name them as men and even their trainers admit they are not women.

Why are you so invested in stripping women of the right to their own sporting competitions? genuine question. Is it just in Sport that you feel women must be kept from having a level playing field or do you think in other areas too women should be forced to accept men they dont want?

The main thrust of FPFW is sport. Nic Williams is the one who got Sharron Davis on board, and has done amazing work, quietly beavering away working on all the sports authorities.

It's interesting how the Taiwanese government know that, though.

Which is why ‘she’ sued the IBA and the two approved labs that said she failed the sex test, right? Oh, except ‘she’ didn’t. I think we can all guess why.

Neither boxer sued anyone after the IBA said they were no longer eligible to compete in the women’s boxing event. They were invited to appeal the decision in the Court of Arbitration for Sports, which the IBA would fund so the athletes wouldn’t be out of pocket. IK initially submitted an appeal but then withdrew it. LYT never appealed. Because neither boxer appealed in time, it means the IBA decision is binding for the purposes of IBA events.

My guess is that neither wanted to appeal as their chromosome results would be made public, and in the light of the Semenya case, they would lose. And if they had their eye on Olympic entry then they didn’t want to jeopardise their place. So better to risk the speculation, and their bet has paid off handsomely.

The poster says that 'Oh, except ‘she’ didn’t. I think we can all guess why.'

But why oh why are we even arguing the toss?
We know and he knows. We shouldnt even give it creedence, beyond
a simple, NO, its not true.
Extraordinary claims are for the person making them to prove, not us.
And that applies to the whole TRA movement as well.

Not one of them has proved any of their claims, and yet despite that they hold society by the throat, and the world lets them.

@RedToothBrush
”What we know to be true beyond reasonable doubt - Lin Yu-ting was banned due to failing a test. There wasn't an attempt to challenge this.”

This is not true though. 😅
The IBA disqualified her for failing a test, which the IOC then overturned calling the test “fundamentally flawed” allowing her to compete.

The IBA is banned btw, their whole organisation is discredited.
”Olympics organizers said Sunday that arbitrary testing imposed on boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting that led to a storm of vitriol misidentifying the women as transgender or men was “so flawed that it’s impossible to engage with it.”
International Olympic Committee spokesman Mark Adams again vigorously defended Khelif of Algeria and Lin of Taiwan, hammering the sport’s now-banned governing body, the International Boxing Association, that claimed the fighters failed unspecified eligibility tests for women’s competition.”
https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-imane-khelif-lin-yuting-boxing-13e9529195585404c7b03c96f97dd634

There are also implications to allowing another government to silence free speech in the UK by trying to intimidate in this way.

Free speech doesn’t protect anyone from libel or cyberbullying over international borders.

It only libel if it is not true. All they have to do is take a cheek swab test. They haven't and they won't and that tells me all I need to know.
The IOC doesn't believe in sex testing preferring to rely on the F marker in a passport. You are in clown world.

So the evidence was not discredited, then.

How can you "overturn" a test? Without repeating the test to see if you get different results?

Except it was disclosed by the now banned IBA that the dodgy lab they used did not test testosterone levels.

In addition, shitty labs don’t need an incentive to have shitty tests with bad results. They can just be shitty at their job.

These two boxers have passed every other accredited gender test btw, it’s not like they have repeatedly failed test after test from all labs.

I am not “stripping women of their right to their own sporting contests” I am questioning the wierd belief that one shitty test commissioned by a banned organisation that has been overturned by the IOC who investigated it and called it flawed is being given credence over all the other tests that these boxers psssed.

It’s like you take five pregancy tests and only one says negative and then you go round thinking you aren’t pregnant because of one shitty test that obviously didn’t work the way it was supposed to. It’s ridiculous and all the vitriol aimed at these women is harmful and is only perpetuating stereotypes of femininity what with all the “oooh I think I see an Adam’s Apple” and comments about how manly these women look.

Yes the test itself was discredited and overturned by the IOC.
What world are you in that you don’t understand this?

You're just making it up as you go along now.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · Today 10:06

Except it was disclosed by the now banned IBA that the dodgy lab they used did not test testosterone levels.

Dodgy labs? What proof do you have that they were dodgy? They're fully accredited by the ISO and approved by the IOC.

The IOC haven't overturned the results, they don't have the wherewithal to do so. They've simply ignored them.

The IOC did not do a chromosome test, which is what the IBA did (at two separate accredited labs, by the way, not one). Thus they cannot have overturned the result of the tests done at the behest of the IBA.

If you say the IOC did a chromosome test which "overturned" the lab tests, where are the results? Or where is the clip or news report of any official from the IOC saying that they did a chromosomal test and have a different result?

The IOC explicitly said that their criterion for eligibility for the female category was the sex marker on legal documents.

Who is they? Because it is up to those calling her a man to prove she is a man.
How are the U.K. fair play for women going to get a cheek swab from an athlete now back in Taiwan?

That’s not true about the IOC. They are fine with non-invasive testing of athletes to prevent unfair competitive advantages due to sex- ie blood tests are ok.

stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Human-Rights/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf

^International Olympic Committee spokesman Mark Adams again vigorously defended Khelif of Algeria and Lin of Taiwan, hammering the sport’s now-banned governing body, the International Boxing Association, that claimed the fighters failed unspecified eligibility tests for women’s competition.”
apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-imane-khelif-lin-yuting-boxing-13e9529195585404c7b03c96f97dd634^

But he doesn't say why these tests were 'legitimate'. And the word legimitate is such a strange choice, he doesn't say wrong or incorrect or false, but not legimitate. Why not? And why use 'carted off and tested', that is strong emotional language?

He says the process is flawed but then he is talking about how and when the tests were done and how the test results were shared, but nowhere does he say the tests themselves or the results were wrong. Not once. Very very clever use of language.

The sentence that infuriates me though is Some want to own a definition of who is a women.” Yes, if you want a restricted category, you need to define the criteria and no, that is not 'who have been raised as women, who have a passport as a woman and have competed for many years as women'

The dude is just one massive biological sex denier.

A cheek swab is much less invasive than a blood test. And it has already been done on Lin - twice.

IBA dis not disclose what sort of test they did, but they did say that the boxers passed one of them, and then failed one data point on the other test.

IOC did overturn the test, they had to in order to overrule the disqualification and said they did in all the evidence I have posted.

I did not say at all the IOC did a chromosome test etc etc, as far as I know they didn’t, nor would they need to.

The IOC didn’t say that. Reference what I posted upthread from their own eligibility framework.

I will believe that when you provide a trustworthy source stating it.