Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right

[hellotowel]

https://x.com/GCAntiFarRight/status/1823790909462602205

"We, the undersigned, are deeply disturbed that populist messages particularly targeting Muslims have gained traction among significant numbers of social media accounts associated with the gender critical movement."
Read and sign our statement below.
https://gcantifarright.wordpress.com/2024/08/13/statement-on-gc-movement-and-the-far-right/

Which account is this referring to?

Don't right wing people have children? Why wouldn't you want to alert them to the dangers of gender ideology?
Are you really so insecure about your beliefs you can't engage with anyone outside your safe space.

I’ve no idea @Wenzles i see so much bad behaviour in this world that I’m clueless at reading what’s what. I’ve never ever in my life watched such a parade of backstabbing, treacherous, egotists

I don't think it is ever possible to return to a previous time, although it can be possible to look and learn from the way things were ordered or structured in the past - and see what was of value. Often the radical spirit in human beings ends up throwing out the baby with the bathwater....... over-throw of old structures becomes the primary aim.

It’s plain as a pikestaff that this letter is aimed at Let Women Speak. It’s intended to paint LWS as racist and extreme.

It’s attempting to distance those women from all the ‘correct thinking’ women, and leaves them more vulnerable as a result.

This appears to be at the heart of lots of the anger / critique of “the letter” on this thread. It’s a continuation of the “mean girls” trope. Ie that an accusation of racism is made purely as a weapon to attack women/ groups with who are disliked for some unknown reason, perhaps jealousy or a vague bitchiness or a superiority complex.

To portray things in such a shallow way (rather than perceiving that people are genuinely concerned about racism) suggests that either people know otherwise but are being disingenuous, or that they genuinely believe this. If the latter, then it speaks to a lack of emotional maturity - they can’t help but project their way of thinking and behaving in the world on to others. For them, people point out things like racism, purely as a personal vendetta rather than because they might care about racism.

Even in the event that someone disagreed that x is racist, if they were sincere and had a level of emotional maturity, they would be able to perceive it as “this person thinks x is racist and has therefore called it out of racism. I disagree and will explain why I don’t think it’s racist but I can see that their intrinsic motivation, although imo misplaced, is that they care about racism”.

Right wing people do have children. I was talking about a Tommy Robinson protest which is not just right wing it’s anti-Muslim hate. Lots of women don’t want this issue to be taken up by the far right. We’re getting wrongly accused enough as it is about “terfs being Nazis”, without purposefully bringing actual fascists on board with us and promoting this issue as one of theirs.

The 'thing' with contemporary Islam is that it has a fervent political wing, and that is Islamism. The other major world religions ( certainly Christianity and Judaism) have each been through reformations and enlightenments and have adpated to contemporary society.

I'm pretty certain there still exist extreme Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and even Buddhists - but they have not spawned a contemporary worldwide movement to infiltrate other societies and traditions and establish in them religious decree or rule of law?

I hate to state the obvious

You sure do.

I have no idea what you're on about actually. It seems that it's you who has a lack of understanding.

Inventing things to make your argument is pathetic. Inventing things which could potentially put a woman's life at risk is criminal.

JCJ has written something that you can find on Twitter/her blog. I'm not going to link because FWR generally doesn't like her using words.

It did make me think - a lot of the people who have signed the letter are 'ordinary people' ie not names associated with this debate. If this exact letter had been written and signed by ONLY not-well-known people, would it have generated the same degree of outrage?

Obvs, it wouldn't have had the same visibility, but what if it had been tweeted by 'big names' saying I didn't want to sign this but think it's interesting' or something?

Would people have been able to actually engage with what the letter is trying to do rather than get into fantastic imaginings about what it will do?

You’re in favour of leafleting at Tommy Robinson protests? Ie bringing that group of people on board with the GC movement?

How are we ever going to succeed unless a majority of people agree with us, including people we don't agree with on other things?

I wouldn't do it myself but I won't shun the women who have done it.

This is not the view of Tommy Robinson and the far right.

That's not quite how I see it.
I think people were objecting not to the opposition to racism (which I am reckoning would be the view of about 99.9% of women on FWR, given earlier threads) but to the covert having a go at KJK, and the feeling that a purity spiral is just building up some steam.

KJK has said some things I don't agree with. You'd think it might be better for the heavy-hitter feminists (and those who identify as such) to engage with her directly. But these feminists (some of whom, like Julie Bindel, I hugely respect - though I don't agree with everything she says, either) have never liked KJK, because she is brassy, loud, successful and speaks to a constituency who have studiously ignored them for the last zillion years.

What is so irritating and frustrating about this thread is that most of us share most of the same concerns, and here we are at each others' throats.

For them, people point out things like racism, purely as a personal vendetta rather than because they might care about racism.

Or I genuinely believe that LWS are not racist so feel this is an unfair inflammatory post that needs calling out in the same way you think LWS need calling out.

We need to be as free to criticise Muslims and Islam as we are free to criticise Christianity. The same people who accuse the church of homophobia and misogyny seem to give Islam a free pass. I don’t want to get into an Islam, Gaza, Israel, racism, immigration conversation, but neither do I think all people with concerns about it are racist.

So here we are. I don’t think LWS is racist. I don’t support racism. I don’t think it’s ok to target LWS in this letter. I won’t be organising a similar letter shouting ‘witches!’, at the organisers of the letter but I will tut, I will argue on here, and I will judge those who support the letter.

I still think the supporters of the letter are being more inflammatory than I am in disapproving of it.

Calling out racism is not inflammatory and divisive, in the same way that calling out sexism isn’t inflammatory and divisive.

And btw I’ve never said LWS are racist, that was a quote from someone else. I haven’t said anything about LWS needing to be called out.

And what if the person you're calling out isn't a racist. What then?

At the moment, @InWithPeaceOutWithStress, it feels like screaming fire in a theatre.

So many things which are real concerns that real people share and worry about are written off as racist tropes and dog whistles.

Until we can allow people to question things they don’t like without assuming they have the darkest of motives, we’ll get nowhere.

When people are terrified and hiding from real threats of violence, pointing and shouting at shadows keeps them scared and in hiding.

We need to help people recognise the good in each other, not denounce every difference of opinion as bigotry and hate.

Say it if that’s what you believe. “I don’t think Tommy Robinson protests are racist, I agree that there is two tier policing and white people are treated worse than Muslims, therefore I see no issue with leafleting at his protests” and then have a discussion about that.

Stop deflecting.

What if the person being called out isn't racist. What then?

Apparently the fallout is "boring":

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1824799831212106043?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

If only they'd taken the time to think it through as you'd imagine an academic might be capable of doing

Bad people inciting violence = BAD
Good people inciting violence = GOOD

If people are not racist, then it helps if they don't attend racist rally. If people who were supporting a cause that I was very high profile in, were attending a racist rally, I would be making damn sure that it was clear that I did not agree with their view on that matter.

Who are you talking about?