Page 4 | olympic car crash

lonelywater · 2024-08-05T15:35:04+00:00

I thought after the WPATH debacle that would blow the lid off, once and for all, gender woo having any further influence in medical matters. Do we think the IOC will simply try to style this out with "nothing to see here" or will radical change be a result? No idea myself as there seems to be still far too many nutters in positions of power.

Truthlikeness · 06/08/2024 20:37

MarieDeGournay · 06/08/2024 10:47

I agree that it is frustrating to see the same things over and over and over again after they've been refuted using reliable sources, UtopiaPlanitia.

The same thing has happened with the IBA - I've posted on a number of threads about their proven corruption, match-fixing, and the fact that they are so close to Russia that calling the 'Russian-backed' isn't far wrong, and they were financed by Gazprom. Even the IBA in its current form acknowledges that they were deeply corrupt, they commissioned their own review, the McLaren Report, in an attempt to 'turn a corner' [hmmmm.. ]
But the IBA good/IOC bad thing keeps cropping up..

There is doubt about the famous tests on Khelif and Lin; in the IBA news conference yesterday, one of them said they were testosterone tests, the other said they chromosome tests; who did the testing? it wasn't the WADA, who only test for drugs; is the IBA really so afraid of breaching the GDPR ..? These questions are valid. They are also irrelevant to the overall issue of men in women's sports, but are being used very effectively to shut down criticism of the IOC.
The IBA got one thing right: people with XY chromosomes are not eligible to participate in women's boxing, and they are to be praised for that. They raised doubts about the two boxers in question, they informed the IOC of their doubts, and that should have been enough to make the IOC take action before this situation developed.

But relying heavily on the credentials of the IBA and their testing regime is not a great idea, it weakens the argument, and it's frustrating when posters keep referring to the IBA as if they are the good guys.

Excuse me while I miss the point :-) but GDPR fines can be in the tens of millions of Euros. They're not to be taken lightly!

DuesToTheDirt · 06/08/2024 20:46

MarieDeGournay · 06/08/2024 10:47

I agree that it is frustrating to see the same things over and over and over again after they've been refuted using reliable sources, UtopiaPlanitia.

The same thing has happened with the IBA - I've posted on a number of threads about their proven corruption, match-fixing, and the fact that they are so close to Russia that calling the 'Russian-backed' isn't far wrong, and they were financed by Gazprom. Even the IBA in its current form acknowledges that they were deeply corrupt, they commissioned their own review, the McLaren Report, in an attempt to 'turn a corner' [hmmmm.. ]
But the IBA good/IOC bad thing keeps cropping up..

There is doubt about the famous tests on Khelif and Lin; in the IBA news conference yesterday, one of them said they were testosterone tests, the other said they chromosome tests; who did the testing? it wasn't the WADA, who only test for drugs; is the IBA really so afraid of breaching the GDPR ..? These questions are valid. They are also irrelevant to the overall issue of men in women's sports, but are being used very effectively to shut down criticism of the IOC.
The IBA got one thing right: people with XY chromosomes are not eligible to participate in women's boxing, and they are to be praised for that. They raised doubts about the two boxers in question, they informed the IOC of their doubts, and that should have been enough to make the IOC take action before this situation developed.

But relying heavily on the credentials of the IBA and their testing regime is not a great idea, it weakens the argument, and it's frustrating when posters keep referring to the IBA as if they are the good guys.

If the IOC don't believe the IBA tests, it's quite simple - they could do their own. And presumably if they suspected drugs they'd be testing immediately. So it's pretty obvious why they won't do a chromosome test.

Needanewname42 · 06/08/2024 21:48

1apenny2apenny · 05/08/2024 17:12

There was a graph on the other thread showing testosterone levels of men and women. I don't doubt that many women in these sports are at the higher end for T. That however is very different to men's levels.

Perhaps all the women should have a 'sex' test and testosterone test and publish their results. It's very telling that neither athlete will consent to the results being published nor to their own testing. We all know why.

I think it's very hard to comprehend how someone could be such a cheat in sport, especially at the Olympics. Do they not understand that this effectively negates any medal they win? But then I suppose it's also hard to comprehend how someone can think having an 'F' in your passport makes you a woman. I mean doesn't only cost a fiver to get that in the uk? Self id through the back door.

Do you think they actually care, as long as they go home with the prize money 💰?
And continue to get sponsorship?

Needanewname42 · 06/08/2024 22:00

AuntyFunGal · 05/08/2024 18:40

Martina Navratilova had her T level tested as part of her tv program re trans sportspeople. Her level was comfortably within normal range (under 2nm per litre).

Once women go over 2, we exhibit a range of health problems. Hardly conducive to elite sports. Unless we’re talking about the other type of women’s bodies who aren’t affected by high T levels.

See former E German athletes & Flo-Jo, who died v young. Why would apparently healthy, super fit women drop dead of heart problems?

A total side not to the thread, I'm shocked to hear Flo-Jo with the nails 💅 died young 😟
That's sad, I will never know how she did anything with those nails.

There have been a fair few footballers who have died young from heart attacks, usually it's the result of heart defects that haven't been picked up, in medicals.
I believe most senior clubs check players for heart conditions now but that wasn't always the case.

EatMoreFibre · 06/08/2024 22:08

@Needanewname42 wikipedia tells me Florence Griffith Joyner died of a seizure due to a brain issue she'd had from birth. I remember being in awe of her when i was a child - this strong, stylish, charismatic woman achieving amazing athletic feats. Her 200m record is still unbeaten.

LaeralSilverhand · 06/08/2024 22:11

Well, today I learned there will be no boxing at LA.

annejumps · 06/08/2024 22:30

LaeralSilverhand · 06/08/2024 22:11

Well, today I learned there will be no boxing at LA.

Oh really?

Noname99 · 06/08/2024 22:55

@LaeralSilverhand
not decided yet

A good explainer on it I think and more even handed than most. As previous poster suggested it’s not as simple as IOC bad / IBA good

BBC link

Boxer gender eligibility: Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting row explained

As a row over eligibility continues to overshadow boxing at the Olympics, we take a detailed look at the background to the dispute.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cnk4427vvd2o

Noname99 · 06/08/2024 22:56

posted too soon ……
however I think the fact that the two boxers didn’t just go and have a simple test that would have instantly ended any questions says volumes imo

Helleofabore · 06/08/2024 23:09

LaeralSilverhand · 06/08/2024 22:11

Well, today I learned there will be no boxing at LA.

Confirmed? I thought the IOC said that decision was pending and under review. The WBO was rumored to be trying to get the gig.

LaeralSilverhand · 06/08/2024 23:13

Helleofabore · 06/08/2024 23:09

Confirmed? I thought the IOC said that decision was pending and under review. The WBO was rumored to be trying to get the gig.

Show quote history

I might have jumped the gun, was based on a bunch of comments under a guardian article. Apologies I should have sought some independent confirmation.

Helleofabore · 06/08/2024 23:44

LaeralSilverhand · 06/08/2024 23:13

I might have jumped the gun, was based on a bunch of comments under a guardian article. Apologies I should have sought some independent confirmation.

Show quote history

No worries. There is just so much misinformation around it is hard to know. The fact that mainstream media is ignoring facts to focus on emotional outpourings makes sorting facts from fiction tedious.