A pronoun conundrum

[Daffydaff]

My husband has joined an American football league for LGBT+ & allies (he just wanted to join a sports club, to be honest, the LGBT bit wasn't sought out). On the welcome form it's asking him for his preferred pronouns, with an asterisk so he has to write something.

I just rolled my eyes so hard at this that I gave myself a headache - as I said to him, making it mandatory to insert these 'preferred pronouns' is like asking what your religion is but not giving any option for atheist.

Now, he knows my strong opinions on gender identity, and although he generally gets it, I don't think he's particularly bothered by putting he/him, as he's new to the league and doesn't want to rock the boat. And fair enough - I don't want to make him a guinea pig.

FWIW it isn't a drop down box so he could just write 'prefer not to say', and I know in the grand scheme of things this is pretty inconsequential, but my anger towards all this bollocks is increasing daily so I wanted some perspective / to hear others thoughts / to vent about the inanity of preferred pronouns.

I think if you are joining a club for lgbt+allies this goes with the territory.

^ what they said.

Its the linguistic sleight of hand by which this ideology has been instated.
Its fundamental, I completely understand your anger.
Are there not other clubs that arent LGBT focused?

@TeenToTwenties yeah you're right. As soon as I posted this I thought I might be focusing on the wrong thing - it's a good sports club in a liberal city and it promotes inclusivity in a pretty traditionally masculine sport which I'm actually all about. I think I'm just getting more and more aware and angry about it all that maybe this is one of those battles that isn't actually there, if that makes sense.

(Although I still think making it asterisked is in itself pretty limiting of them, forcing people to identify themselves)

But yes. This actually might be a non-thread as I walk back my earlier ire 😆

That's a good way of putting it. The linguistic sleight of hand. My husband was uncomfortable putting down he / him, partly because he knows that he doesn't quite believe in it, partly because he knows my thoughts, but ultimately he just wants to play sport with by all accounts a really decent group of people.

It took me ages for him to sign up for this one group, I'm encouraging him to 'put himself out there' so I don't want to suggest a new team as that may never happen :) Plus he likes them, and this isn't his hill to die on I guess...

It's probably better if you both become friendly with people in the league and can have conversations about why he felt uncomfortable having to declare pronouns in this way.
Better than making a statement on the form itself, I mean.

If it's a free text box, just put a couple of hyphens, like --

This… I would be worried if my DH joined a LGBTQIA’s sport club. Pronoun would be the least of worries

What would your other worries be?

My therapist once advised me to say "I'm not comfortable declaring my gender as I'm not sure a d I don't want to out myself one way or another, so I'd just like to ignore this request, thank you"

I think if you join a club for lgbt then it kind of goes with the territory. Can he just put bond/ James Bond.

He/him if he doesn't want to rock the boat.

N/A otherwise.

Agree with this. Or he could put "happy with whatever".

Would he be though?

Most people who object to the use of preferred pronouns discover the importance of pronouns if they themselves are repeatedly misgendered.

Your husband is a he so just put that down. You're overthinking it.

It's an LGBT group, there will probably be people who you can't tell by appearances what pronoun to use, this saves them having to be asked directly over and over again.

In the long list of things to worry about, this should come pretty low down. Your husband should just put he/him and enjoy his new club.

If it's a textbox just get him to put down the position he wants. "striker" that way they'll have to refer to him as striker even when he's in defence and the chaos (in a very meagre way) will rain down upon them.

Have you considered perhaps that he might just choose not to immediately try to force a sports club that he's not even a member of to change its approach to trans and GNC inclusion before he's even filled in the joining form?

I would write none.

I agree.

Although I am always surprised when organisations like that force you to state pronouns - do they not have any members who are not in a position to comfortably state them at a given point eg someone who is feeling like they might want to use they/them, but also feel like they aren't quite ready to actually announce it. I imagine that for someone with gender dysphoria, it has the potential to be quite a difficult question if they aren't reconciled to it in their head.

I think he should write he/him. I don't think we will retain any sort of moral high ground if we deliberately go into LGBT spaces, despite not being LGBT, and start dictating how they should talk/use language - it's that very thing we are fighting against.

Most people who object to the use of preferred pronouns discover the importance of pronouns if they themselves are repeatedly misgendered.

Really? I deal with a lot of people in different countries for work, and I guess my name comes across as male in a lot of them. I get called he a lot in emails that I'm coped in on "I've copied in Dancing, he should be able to help with X" etc

I couldn't give less of a shit.

And when someone meets you - say at a party - presumably also no problem if someone refers to you as 'he' consistently?

I sort-of agree about it going with the territory of joining a club badged as being for LGBT and allies. We know that's code for accepting gender identity ideology. But it shouldn't be. I'm a lesbian, and I shouldn't have to give a wide berth to clubs and other organisations that claim to be for me. It's infuriating, all the more so because sports have historically been excluding, and now when more 'inclusive' leagues come along, which may well be more inclusive of different body shapes and sizes and sporting abilities as well as sexualities and gender presentation, they insist on compliance with a regressive ideology. In this instance, though, given that the club is for gender identity ideologists and their sympathisers, I'd either put 'he/him' or find another club - though even as I write that I think there probably isn't another, such is the depth of ideological capture.

Nah, I think most people genuinely couldn't care less, as long as it's not being done maliciously.