Tinkerbell syndrome, pronoun badges and trans existence

[Alltheprettyseahorses]

Inspired by some posts in a now-full thread:

Someone in the workplace who is trans is literally existing as trans in public. Yet we are told that disagreeing with accessories like pronoun badges means we don't want transpeople to exist in public.

So - must trans necessarily involve others and is it so fragile an identity that it will disappear like Tinkerbell if not constantly affirmed by everyone around the transperson? Is not noticing the badge transphobic? As most people, including those with specific protected characteristics and including most transpeople to be honest, don't wear badges announcing their identity, does this mean they don't exist in public?

I would argue the sole purpose of pronoun badges is to involve others in the validation of a specific type of trans identity whether they consent to this or not and even if they don't understand they have been allocated as having a supporting role in someone else's main-character life. But speaking on a personal level, I have my own priorities and interests - I find it an imposition to be subjected to the macroaggression of being expected to change my natural language processes for someone who will never be part of my concerns.

(I don't normally start threads so if I don't come back I'm not shaving my hairy feet, I've probably forgotten or something)

Pronoun badges are not just about language though are they? They are about demanding others pretend someone is the opposite sex. So in a healthcare setting what does that mean for my consent? My right to a same sex care giver? My doctor’s recognition of the importance of sex in my treatment? If another employee refuses to use the correct sex based language to refer to other staff then what else are they lying about to make staff feel better at my expense? Patients are incredibly vulnerable regardless of disability.

Whereas in reality I imagine most people using the badge see it as a polite request rather than a command.

Ok, so they don't mind if I politely decline?

So - must trans necessarily involve others and is it so fragile an identity that it will disappear like Tinkerbell if not constantly affirmed by everyone around the transperson?

I'd like to get back to this question, which is far more interesting than a rehash of the other 1000 post thread about KJK.

What does it mean to have a trans identity? It appears to be something which only exists in the mind of the trans person, so why do other people even need to know about it, much less participate in a fantasy that the person has changed sex?

There was a comment earlier in the thread that wearing a pronoun badge means that the person doesn't then have too keep telling people that they're trans. But why do other people need to know this?

wtf is a 'sense of womanhood'?

Trans is a performance which means nothing without an audience.

Yes you're right, it IS totally different than directing swearing towards someone specifically, and it IS totally different than swearing at a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT member of staff than was stated.
Glad you've realised.

😂😂😂

IT'S MA'AM!

Or you could see it as being about someone wanting to assert their gender is more important to them than their sex.
I don't get it, I don't have a gender. I also don't believe in god. I think refusing to use someone's pronouns on principle and demanding employers don't recognise pronouns and no badges as "ideological" is like an atheist demanding schools don't teach RE and pulling their kids out of nativity plays.

It is such a bizarre thing to get hung up on, and starts from the assumption "there is no such thing as gender". Which is not necessarily true.

Meh though. If you want to feel like you are fighting the good fight by insisting on calling everyone by their sex based pronouns, you go for it.

I do know that my sense of womanhood is not so fragile that I fear erasure and annihilation when I see someone wearing an ID badge.

Yet some people's own sense of transhood does appear so fragile that they fear erasure and annihilation if someone refuses to acknowledge or obey the instructions/demands to comply as displayed on their ID badge.

It does make one wonder if they know, at some level, that they are trying to fool themselves.

OK.
I think the point being made was KJK was aggressive to the surgery staff and they were within their rights to ask her to leave, not that she swore directly at the receptionist. But if that level of pedantry equates to "inflation" to you, I'm happy to agree that you are right.

Personally don't think it changes the price of fish but each to their own 😃

Or you could see it as being about someone wanting to assert their gender is more important to them than their sex
But this is a problem when they're asserting it to people who rightly don't give a toss.

How utterly presumptuous to think that how you feel is as important to random strangers as it is to you? The self absorption necessary is truly flabbergasting.

Meh though. If you want to feel like you are fighting the good fight by insisting on calling everyone by their sex based pronouns, you go for it.

Otherwise known as...speaking a common language that reflects observed reality and that everyone in the workplace, regardless of language ability and educational level, can understand?

Well...yeah. My workplace is an inclusive one. That means that we understand each other, not confuse each other with esoteric belief systems that requires non-intuituve anguage changes.

Patients are incredibly vulnerable regardless of disability.

Agree @KielderWater. Care providers are in a powerful position whilst patients coming into surgeries are at their most vulnerable. Being in a powerful position whilst messaging their needs/beliefs via a badge can cause added stress for some people. My autistic relative would not be able to manage this; she says what she sees - it would be unfair if she was labelled a bigot or deemed rude for responding in a way that is natural for her. And what would be the impact of that be on her future treatment. Healthcare should always focus on the patient but I worry that the pronoun badge wearing could cause another barrier in developing trust between clinician and patient.

We don't have a lot, if any, transpeople here, so OP's question cannot be answered by anyone on this thread.

Well some people feel the same about celebrating Easter. Or the TV being taken over by the coronation of the King 😂

I don't give a toss about god, still have to be polite to religious colleagues at work. Its part of being human. We tend to be a very self-absorbed species 😂

So would you say the same about a 50 year old man behaving aggressively to a 20 year old female receptionist because there were no appointments left? I know where I think the power is in that dynamic, and it's not with the patient.

But people who choose to celebrate Easter don't insist everyone else does too?
Not seeing any connection there, sorry.
In what way do you "have to be polite" to religious colleagues, over and above being polite to people as standard adult behaviour?

Womanhood is defined as the state or condition of being a woman. I'm surprised you haven't come across its usage before.

I think refusing to use someone's pronouns on principle and demanding employers don't recognise pronouns and no badges as "ideological" is like an atheist demanding schools don't teach RE and pulling their kids out of nativity plays.

It's more akin to me saying "I am not obliged to call a vicar 'Reverend' or 'Mother' when I'm an atheist and am happy to address the vicar as 'Ms Jones' which I consider both accurate and polite".

That's womanhood, the question was "wtf is a sense of womanhood?"
I'm a woman, as per that definition, but I have no innate sense of being anything more than a live human being, really 🤷🏻‍♀️

Most people have to take Christmas/Easter off work regardless of their preferences.

I have to be polite to colleagues telling me all about their religious views. I really wish they wouldn't TBH, especially when it's the "homosexuality is a sin to me" type nonsense.

I have to put up with men commenting on the attractiveness of female colleagues, or talking shit about white working class men being the most discriminated against group there is.

No doubt lots of my colleagues find various things I say equally annoying. It's part of being human. I don't want to live in some kind of authoritarian dictatorship where only "approved views" are tolerated.

I have to put up with men commenting on the attractiveness of female colleagues

Actually, you don't. That's sexual harassment and you can inform management or HR.

The workplace is supposed to be a professional environment and, whilst we don't expect people to keep their religion or other beliefs a secret, we also expect not to have stuff shoved down our throats. "Politeness" isn't a synonym for "passively tolerating harassment".

Also I think using preferred pronouns is "being polite to people as standard adult behaviour". That's kind of my point. Whatever I think about it, I'm an adult and so it's polite.

I don't want to live in some kind of authoritarian dictatorship where only "approved views" are tolerated.
You spend all your time criticising the wrong people then.

CassieMaddox

If your employer doesn't open at Christmas or Easter, it's a day off. Nobody has to go to church or pray or do anything religious at Christmas or Easter. Or even send cards or say Merry Christmas to anyone.