Tinkerbell syndrome, pronoun badges and trans existence

[Alltheprettyseahorses]

Inspired by some posts in a now-full thread:

Someone in the workplace who is trans is literally existing as trans in public. Yet we are told that disagreeing with accessories like pronoun badges means we don't want transpeople to exist in public.

So - must trans necessarily involve others and is it so fragile an identity that it will disappear like Tinkerbell if not constantly affirmed by everyone around the transperson? Is not noticing the badge transphobic? As most people, including those with specific protected characteristics and including most transpeople to be honest, don't wear badges announcing their identity, does this mean they don't exist in public?

I would argue the sole purpose of pronoun badges is to involve others in the validation of a specific type of trans identity whether they consent to this or not and even if they don't understand they have been allocated as having a supporting role in someone else's main-character life. But speaking on a personal level, I have my own priorities and interests - I find it an imposition to be subjected to the macroaggression of being expected to change my natural language processes for someone who will never be part of my concerns.

(I don't normally start threads so if I don't come back I'm not shaving my hairy feet, I've probably forgotten or something)

It was meant to be comedy. Which maybe you didn't get.

Ironically. Under the circumstances.

Aye,imagine words not meaning what they're supposed to mean.

Who are you to decide his chosen are ridiculous?
How very dare you! All chosen pronouns must be accepted as absolute and never queried or commented on I thought?

Once you decide that ridiculous made-up pronouns like ze/hir are acceptable, then you can't complain that any other ridiculous made-up pronouns are unacceptable, can you?

And this is how gender identity ideology will eat itself, ultimately.

Aye, that's a good point, and one that I had not thought of. I retract my earlier point.

If fae/faer/faes is a valid pronoun, then how can we be sure that adult/human/male isn't one? And if "Pronouns: adult/human/male" or similar is presumed to be a political statement, surely "pronouns: fae/faer/faes" should be presumed to be a political statement too?

Will this guy appeal? And does he have a crowdfunder?

So if a lot of people believe something to be true it makes it so? That's Tinkerbell Syndrome right there.

Half a dozen mnetters believing something they invented in their heads doesn't make it true. I does not mean you.

It's really interesting how some posters come back for post after post to repeat the same stuff, whilst at the same time stating doggedly that if people don't understand them it's not their fault/ problem.

I find myself wondering whether they employ the same tactics IRL. If so, they must be exhaustingly argumentative to be around.

If someone (for avoidance of doubt, an unknown or unspecified person) truly had a point to make, and wanted others to understand it, they would happily seek to make clarification without the defensive aggro, thus moving the conversation along. Instead it inevitably descends into personal attacks along the lines of "No, YOU smell!!"

I, myself, find it a useful shortcut to determine who is actually trying to discuss in good faith.

If someone (for avoidance of doubt, an unknown or unspecified person) truly had a point to make, and wanted others to understand it, they would happily seek to make clarification without the defensive aggro, thus moving the conversation along. Instead it inevitably descends into personal attacks along the lines of "No, YOU smell!!"

I, myself, find it a useful shortcut to determine who is actually trying to discuss in good faith.

Yes, it is.

Yeah, it comes across either as argument for the sale of argument, or seeing their own stance unravel to the point where they can no longer sustain it, so nitpick over nothing.

It's really interesting how some posters come back again and again to argue a point on which they're wrong. Being told once should have been enough.

Given that it's a discussion board, most people come here to exchange and examine ideas, not to just categorically tell others that they're wrong.

That's not generally how it works.

Stuck record syndrome.

I'm regularly surprised at why certain posters who evidently despise women spend so much time on here. It must be a miserable existence. One of the joys of this online community is sharing, debating, discussing and enjoying the company of women.
Regularly rocking up to berate, sneer, condemn and criticise women is a very odd way of spending your time methinks?

Still - each to their own.

Gawd- one can hope!

I resent being told that biological females can't refer to ourselves as having a vagina - we are just a body with a fronthole.

If you're referring to me, I don't despise women.

If you're not referring to me, apologies. Who are you talking about?

The last pronoun badge I saw was a "She/Her" badge being worn by a young, female children's librarian. The library we were in is in a solidly middle class suburb. She was well spoken, well dressed (fashionable but not trendy), well educated - also solidly middle class. Her badge felt very much of a piece with that, to me.

That's how it comes across to me too.

Obviously this is just my own anecdata but of the people I actually know who wear these badges / use their pronouns in email or social media signatures, 100% are middle class, well off and well educated (I'm not bashing this demographic, it includes myself).

It's an interesting correlation.

I've mercifully never encountered anyone wearing pronoun badges, so can thse who have say whether they've seen men-who-aren't-pretending-they're-not-men wear them? Do they (in your experience) announce they're he/him as readily as women who are not pretending they're not women wear she/her ones?

Has anyone suggested that if a person has to wear a pronoun badge presumably because they keep getting referenced as the sex they are rather than the sex they think they are then they should have a look at the sex they are and then go with it and have therapy to make them feel better about themselves.

I don't mean this unkindly although I expect people will think I do.

No.... but as I said, not a representative sample or anything.

It's nearly all women with female pronouns, or those with non standard pronouns.

Probably because women are socialised to be more accepting or to signal acceptance compliance?
Edited to reflect this was a reply to @Catsmere

Yeah I mean it kind of flies in the face of the 'but you can't tell someone sex' argument, doesn't it!

🤫 Don't point out what the Emperor's new clothes are showing.

Once, at Tesco. Young lad.