Wtf Meghan Murphy

[CassieMaddox]

A feminist I used to really admire, deciding pussy grabbing, porn loving, convicted felon Trump and his misogynistic, fickle, anti abortion, running mate Vance are the best choice for American women.

https://x.com/MeghanEMurphy/status/1814817323754381763

Feminists/'feminist' men keep insisting to me that @JDVance1 is a misogynist who wants to 'take away women's rights' yet Trump/Vance are the only choice if we wish to restore women's sex-based rights in America (never mind the fact that Vance is anti-p*rn). I am not a fan of letting the government have any say over what women do with their bodies, but 'abortion rights' have for decades been used as a pawn in political games, and women keep letting themselves be played.

Voting Democrat solely because they'll let you have an abortion while they allow all the rest of our sex-based rights to be destroyed seems unwise to me. Women need to take their bodily autonomy into their own hands imo — this means we need to learn about and educate other women about their bodies and reproductive system, so we aren't relying on the government to dole out hormonal birth control (which is HORRIBLE for us) and dictate our reproductive choices. It's far from an ideal situation, but I resent being told I must vote for a party that can't even define the word 'woman' because they'll allow women to have abortions. That gives me the icks and should give you the icks as well.

I don't believe we should be handing over our power to governments, and the more we understand about our own bodies, the power of food/herbal medicine, the less we need to rely on the state or the medical establishment to allow us bodily autonomy and pretend to be invested in our health and wellbeing.

I do think we should fight against anyone/any laws that tell us what we may or may not do with our bodies, but the Democrats are not the party of body sovereignty either, so I'm not sure why women give them that credit.

I'm not sure what's going on with her but this is a huge shock. Very glad I'm not in the States right now.

😂
For example - saying both that it will never happen because people know it's bad, but it is ok if it does -
I didn't say either of those things, that's probably the cause of your confusion.

Insult me all you like. I don't agree with you that without laws, women and doctors will terminate healthy term babies for no good reason. It's as simple as that.

I feel a bit presumptuous answering because I don't really know what I'm talking about, I just sometimes listen in on people who are over-invested interested in U.S. politics.
As you say, in theory the Republicans are very small goverment. In practice they can't help invading third world countries which necessetates taxes and big government insitutions - defence related, but still big government in effect.
Trump lived up to the small government, swamp draining ideal by not being bellicose. (Formatting edit!!)

My apologies, it was intended as clear feedback to you and as a recent example for others to demonstrate that you don't appear to think about how your arguments come across. To be clear and avoid another confusion, your arguments come across as poorly drafted and lacking in supporting evidence. And they are undermined by links that do not back up what you are saying. That does not result in a threat. It is unusual for an adult to decide in their own mind that they are a threat, then to write that down like it is a good thing, and post it with glee.

It is also unusual for an adult to boast about dismissing diverging viewpoints as being "in one ear, out the other". It comes across as you having zero intention of reflection, and totally lacking any ability to reflect on yourself and critically evaluate whether or not you've engaged and persuaded others. And that is the point of MN: to listen, to persuade and be persuaded, to read new materials and different views or approaches to various topics of discussion. That is why posters such as LangCleg and Barracker were so well regarded and why many of us learned such a lot from them.

It's unclear what you get out of posting here. Perhaps you would be better off in a closed WA or FB group, where people who offer different views or challenge you with evidenced arguments can be removed at will.

Tl; Dr

I've always been in favour of a woman's right to acccess abortion. I have had two terminations myself; one at age 15, and one when already a single parent, age 23. Most women and girls access abortion in the first trimester. I think Europe has it about right with its limits ( in exceptional circumstances a pregnancy can be terminated outwith those limits).

There is somethingly profoundly disturbing about full term abortion, though..........and it is an incredibly provocative law. Also what is very provacative, and to my mind, ironically, very anti woman...and that is seeing crowds of people shouting " What do we want? Abortion. When do we want it - now" and waving banners saying " My body, my choice" As if abortion is something to be celebrated, rather than the often very painful and difficult choice when in very difficult circumstances, that it most often is.

This kind of feminism - that which seeks its goal in the eradication of the facts of female biology, the denial of female biology; of the worthiness and value of motherhood; which perceives pregnancy and childbirth to be the worst things that can happen to a woman - the source of all suffering and oppression - is not the sort of feminism I've ever related to.

My feminism is rooted in the facts of the female body, and in the reality of the female experience; which sees dignity and power in that experience, not in the eradication and denial of it.

It's a problem of making it very black and white.
I think the UK laws are about right. If I was forced to either make abortion illegal, or fully legal up to term, I think the latter is less damaging to women than the former.

I cannot get my head around supposed feminists arguing that definitions of "woman" are more important than safe, legal reproductive healthcare. This idea that without a sex based definition of woman, womens rights cease to exist is a logically fallacy. Women will still get pregnant when its harmful or dangerous for them or the baby, they will still need safe medical care in those circumstances , regardless of semantics around gender.

I doubt the US would cope with a real insurrection. For one thing they wouldn't recognise what it was.

Because it's extremely unlikely to get 8.5 months into a pregnancy and just think "oh i don't want this now". It's a non-issue.

If the options are abortions across the board or no abortions, i'll choose abortions across the board.

I feel late term abortion is not seen as a moral issue (unless it ends in infanticide, which is a criminal issue) but a medical one. No-one chooses to start labour early and bring a baby not quite ready into the world unless there is an emergency, either with the baby or the mother, e.g. life-saving surgery, cancer treatment, etc. And that would not be a late term abortion, but induction of labour to save lives.

There is a real issue around removing sex-based language, which results in erasure of women. That erasure could/likely will have an impact on health care during pregnancy. I believe there has been one instance - US? - or a stillbirth because the labouring mother presented as a man and had male as her sex on her notes. That is dangerous. Lot's of medicine relies on knowing the sex (not the gender ID) of a patient. Words have consequences.

I mean surely a simple "I'm pregnant" there would have helped clear up that particular issue?

Sounds like the medical staff were spectacularly bad at their jobs

If that's the case I'm thinking of it's a bit more complicated. The transman actually told the staff that he was trans when he arrived although his medical records said he was a man.

He'd done a home pregnancy test which was positive and had wet himself, a nurse ordered a pregnancy test but there was no urgency and he later gave birth to a still born baby.

Yes agreed. I just don't think the consequences are so dire that all other feminism is secondary in response.

Things like VAWG, abortion and reproductive healthcare, poverty, FGM, isolation of women and second class citizen status in many countries are all more important to me.

Well that's lovely you know what is important to you. And other women have different priorities and perspectives.

I also wonder what you get out of these threads, you insist you're right and don't seem very interested in exploring or debating (rather than arguing against) other viewpoints. Do you want to educate others out of their wrongthink perhaps?

Nice summary of why I have given up engaging with OP.

Apart from plopping on my thread to post that.
I love a bit of FWR virtue signalling. Must be very appealing to lurkers and newbies.

😂
Its called "a debate". People have different opinions and put them forward.
Would be very tedious if everyone just agreed with each other, wouldn't it?

Actually it feels more like trying to discuss complex issues with someone who just flies in and slaps down a dead kipper and runs.

😂
Gosh I really can't win. If I discuss the detail I'm derailing. If I don't I'm "dead kippering".
I should give up really and just agree with everything certain posters say for a quiet life.

Why does it have to be either or?
The first issue affects every woman on the planet and all childbearing aged women in the US.
The tide is turning via courtcases. The sane thing to do is vote for the goverment that wont destroy the first and continue the work to change it.
And has it ever occured that if Trump targets LGBTQ that will turn them into martyrs and strengthen their cause sense of martyrdom, give them massively more support, and make it even more dangerously blackmarket than it is?

I dont trust either the motivation or the logic and imagination of whomever is pushing this line via their platforms.
I think its incredibly dangerous for women and society and unthought out.
Imagine the impact of millions and millions more unwanted children on a society that either doesnt care or cant look after them. And the poor women, often just children so many the victims of rape and incest, its UNBELIEVABLY CRUEL to women and will alter their lives and prospects irretreivably.

But it is a hot topic to stir division and aquire more followers and donations on Youtube.

Great post
I also worry about the impact of a Trump presidency on gay rights. I think its unlikely to be a gay friendly government.

Knowing Trump anyone who sucks up to him is in his favour.
Many if not most of the leading Tras are rampant misogynists and Incels.
They will be right up his street, and frankly I've always suspected Trumps tendencies...

Someone up-thread asked if MM was refering to herbal abortifacients in her X post. I think she is. This is a left-over, I think, of the fairly hippy end of second-wave feminism. Use of them is dangerous, however, and not to be recommended. Homeopathy has its place, but that place is not in home-made abortions.