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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall verdict due in the next week

281 replies

biddyboo · 16/07/2024 17:46

🤞🤞🤞

Allison Bailey v Stonewall verdict due in the next week
OP posts:
Thread gallery
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LoobiJee · 24/07/2024 11:05

Signalbox · 24/07/2024 11:02

Thanks for the thread reader link.

This is interesting.

“Fifthly, my case is about direct discrimination, but the judgment also considers indirect discrimination. There, it appears to establish that workplace policies of “Stonewall Law” through the Diversity Champions Scheme – e.g. the removal of single sex spaces – DOES in fact generate legal liability for Stonewall. This is a hollow victory for them.”

Omlettes · 24/07/2024 11:06

@Signalbox
Thank you, that is upsetting and it all sounds a bit off.
Perhaps they have a relative.

SelfPortraitWithHagstone · 24/07/2024 11:08

Wait, I was a bit premature there - has anyone got a link to the actual judgement? Can't see it online but don't know where to look!

dunBle · 24/07/2024 11:09

Ah well, looks like retiring this username will have to wait until Allison and her team decide if they wish to take it further.

lcakethereforeIam · 24/07/2024 11:10

Gutted for her. She's such a battler and there is blue sky.

Datun · 24/07/2024 11:14

Reading what she says, the judgement seems muddled and contradictory.

It's so fucking annoying that these people don't really grasp the implications of what they're saying.

If she wants to go again, I'm happy to back her all the way.

Boiledbeetle · 24/07/2024 11:15

Full thread

I am sorry that I have not succeeded in my Appeal against Stonewall.

I am grateful to The Hon. Mr Justice Bourne for his reasoned judgment, although I am of course disappointed with the result.

I will consider the judgment with my legal team, but my initial view is that there are five key aspects of the judgment which are of concern.
1/7

Firstly, the judgment gives permission for organisations like Stonewall to procure the withdrawal of employment from people whose protected characteristics they disagree with, if this can be framed as a “protest”. This seems to go directly against the terms of the Equality Act.
2/7

Secondly, sight should not be lost of the fact that Stonewall, a charity set up to protect the legal rights of lesbians like me, should be the ones to limit workplace rights like this. How far they have fallen.
3/7

Thirdly, the judgment relies on the concept of “fair or reasonable or just”. This is surprising because the judge heard no submissions on this from either party in the 2-day Appeal, and it didn’t feature at all in the 117-page employment appeal judgment or the 23-day employment appeal hearing.
4/7

Fourthly, the judgment appears self-contradictory. It gives various scenarios to justify its conclusion, at least one of which appears directly to confound that conclusion.
5/7

Fifthly, my case is about direct discrimination, but the judgment also considers indirect discrimination. There, it appears to establish that workplace policies of “Stonewall Law” through the Diversity Champions Scheme – e.g. the removal of single sex spaces – DOES in fact generate legal liability for Stonewall. This is a hollow victory for them.
6/7

I hope to expand upon these five points in greater detail in due course. I will now consider next steps carefully with my legal team. In the meantime, thank you to everyone who has supported me. I am very sorry that we have been unable to prevail on this occasion.
7/7

END

Snowypeaks · 24/07/2024 11:16

Datun · 24/07/2024 11:14

Reading what she says, the judgement seems muddled and contradictory.

It's so fucking annoying that these people don't really grasp the implications of what they're saying.

If she wants to go again, I'm happy to back her all the way.

Agree - with the caveat that I haven't read the full judgement yet. But at this moment it seems like a failure of nerve from Justice Bourne.

Signalbox · 24/07/2024 11:20

.

Allison Bailey v Stonewall verdict due in the next week
DrSpartacular · 24/07/2024 11:21

That is so disappointing for Allison.

Bloody Stonewall.

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 24/07/2024 11:21

That's rubbish news, also looking at the points Alison has raised the judgement seems to be contradictory in parts and all over the place in others.

The case being about direct discrimination but the judgement brings indirect discrimination into it? Then relying on the concept of 'reasonable or just' but the judge heard no submissions on that from either side?

Also, that Stonewall can indeed procure the withdrawal of employment of those with protected characteristics if it can be framed as a "protest"??!

I mean come on, WTF?!

Sounds like a lot of bollocks to me, to justify why they won't stand up to the Stonewall juggernaut.

Still, it send a message to employers - if you take advice from Stonewall and get taken to court over it, Stonewall can (and now will) walk away, and leave you in the shit.

rabbitwoman · 24/07/2024 11:24

This is so frustrating.

Of course, OF COURSE everyone in Allison's camp is going to think this is the wrong judgement and question the judge, but WHY do they keep getting it wrong?

Are we missing something? Is it REALLY OK for Stonewall to give such bad advice, and there is, nothing anyone can do?

Maybe the government should step in now?

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 24/07/2024 11:25

I'll be happy to plant carrots if this is appealed.

Citrusandginger · 24/07/2024 11:27

Datun · 24/07/2024 11:14

Reading what she says, the judgement seems muddled and contradictory.

It's so fucking annoying that these people don't really grasp the implications of what they're saying.

If she wants to go again, I'm happy to back her all the way.

1000%. So disappointed for her and happy to keep digging.

Especially in light of her comment suggesting that Stonewall does have legal liability for the diversity champions scheme.

LoobiJee · 24/07/2024 11:28

If anyone has a link to where the judgment has been published, could you post it here, please. I’ve searched but can’t find it.

timenowplease · 24/07/2024 11:31

Well fuck that.

Thank you Allison. 100% admiration for what you've done.

Best few quid I ever spent toward funding this and would do it again in a heartbeat.

Signalbox · 24/07/2024 11:31

LoobiJee · 24/07/2024 11:28

If anyone has a link to where the judgment has been published, could you post it here, please. I’ve searched but can’t find it.

It may not have been published yet. There’s often a bit of a lag.

MaidOfAle · 24/07/2024 11:34

It takes a few days for judgements to appear on BAILII.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 24/07/2024 11:39

What a pity. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me but then the original judgment on Stonewall didn't either, I thought KM's email was an inducement to discriminate or at least a threat if they didn't. But IANAL. I'm very sorry Allison.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2024 11:43

Oh no. So disappointed and my heart goes out to Allison. Please could someone post the judgment here as soon as it comes out?

FigRollsAlly · 24/07/2024 11:47

Feeling very sad for Allison but will be so up for gardening again if her next steps require it.

Igmum · 24/07/2024 11:58

Very upsetting but Allison is so generous and so reasoned in her analysis. Agree, it does sound as though there is room for a further appeal there and I shall be ready with some carrots if that happens, but I will also understand if Allison wants to step back from this. It must be a difficult time for her

Datun · 24/07/2024 11:59

It seems to me so there are definitely grounds for appeal. And she might get a judge who actually understands what they're talking about.

It's whether or not she's got the heart to do it though.

These cases must be taking their toll.

But one thing's for sure, she's got a rod of steel down her backbone like no other.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2024 12:01

But one thing's for sure, she's got a rod of steel down her backbone like no other.

She does. I'm in awe of her.