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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Wes Streeting addresses puberty blockers decision -excellent response

356 replies

Fenlandia · 14/07/2024 12:05

https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1812435914473295927

x.com

https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1812435914473295927

OP posts:
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33
LoobiJee · 14/07/2024 21:28

Fenlandia · 14/07/2024 16:50

Civil servants, as in proper professionals, or activists from the umpteen staff networks devoted to trans?

Good point. Proper professionals wouldn’t be chatting to JM behind the scenes about their professional civil service advice to the Secretary of State. But activists who are members of staff networks might talk to him about their lobbying efforts perhaps.

SidewaysOtter · 14/07/2024 21:38

It’s coming as a shock to them that they might not be on The Right Side of History after all, and that their ideology is being firmly rejected. Unsurprisingly they’re finding this hard to cope with to the point of being genuinely afraid - this is what happens when you let kids believe lies about changing sex and suicide risks. Despite their angry hate-filled rhetoric I feel sorry for them.

I don’t wish the bile on anyone but maybe the opprobrium heaped down on Streeting will make him and the other Labour ministers realise what happens when you go against ideology of any stripe. We women have been putting up with this for fucking years.

UpThePankhurst · 14/07/2024 21:40

LoobiJee · 14/07/2024 21:28

Good point. Proper professionals wouldn’t be chatting to JM behind the scenes about their professional civil service advice to the Secretary of State. But activists who are members of staff networks might talk to him about their lobbying efforts perhaps.

The lobby have been used to having their 'cosy cups of tea' behind the doors of power and influencing people their way in undemocratic and unprofessional ways for years. It should never have been allowed to happen in the first place, I can understand they are slightly miffed that their unethical control and capture is slipping, but it's about bloody time.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 14/07/2024 22:11

SidewaysOtter · 14/07/2024 21:38

It’s coming as a shock to them that they might not be on The Right Side of History after all, and that their ideology is being firmly rejected. Unsurprisingly they’re finding this hard to cope with to the point of being genuinely afraid - this is what happens when you let kids believe lies about changing sex and suicide risks. Despite their angry hate-filled rhetoric I feel sorry for them.

I don’t wish the bile on anyone but maybe the opprobrium heaped down on Streeting will make him and the other Labour ministers realise what happens when you go against ideology of any stripe. We women have been putting up with this for fucking years.

I completely agree.

Boiledbeetle · 14/07/2024 22:22
Survive End Of The World GIF

Well... As a starter from the Labour Party he's come down on the side of sanity so that's good.

Long may sane decisions continue from Labour.

SquirrelSoShiny · 14/07/2024 22:22

I'm actually concerned for the young autistic people reading that they're all going to die by suicide because of the hateful bile activists are writing online. For some autistic youth, black and white thinking puts them at risk of thinking 'I'm not allowed puberty blockers so I have to kill myself now.' It's a variation of 'I like Lego and cars so I must be a boy.'

In other words these activists are putting children at risk AND THEY DON'T CARE. Instead of telling confused teenagers, 'It's going to be okay, wait and see,' they are telling them, 'Your job is to kill yourself so we can go YOU SEE?! WE TOLD YOU SO! NOW GIVE US HALF A MILLION TO START A NEW QUEER CHARITY!'

To say I hold these people in contempt is much too mild. They are actively harming children. THEY are the hateful bigots, not the rest of sane society.

RedToothBrush · 14/07/2024 22:50

Citrusandginger · 14/07/2024 18:18

ItsBinDayToday
A clinical trial will probably highlight the issues they know already exist is the best way. However his replies are full of people still calling him scum. They really don’t care about the long term health of these children as long as their feelings about this are affirmed.

How do you do a clinical trial without harming more children?

Exactly @Omlettes. How on earth could a trial get ethics approval?

The thing is, there's sufficient evidence to suggest a study will show harm in the long run from what we know in other areas, so putting new kids on the trial is next to impossible within ethical practice. The trouble is that the concept of ethical practice is itself fragile. The whole thing is fairly bonkers.

Datun · 14/07/2024 22:57

I would dearly love to see someone ask Jolyon why all these children are gender distressed.

What is the reason? I'd like to see him actually say they're 'born in the wrong body'.

And if he daren't lest he looks like an unhinged loon, then let's hear some bloody reasons.

RedToothBrush · 14/07/2024 23:01

Rubidium · 14/07/2024 19:45

This is interesting:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00203bb/political-thinking-with-nick-robinson-series-1-74-the-pat-mcfadden-in-power-one

Pat McFadden is Keir Starmer’s enforcer. If you go to about 17’45” NR asks him about ‘woke’ issues, and PMcF replies:

“You should always remember who you’’re serving…if the job description is I’m just going to keep your activists happy... you lose touch with the voters when you do that... If you put country before party, then it’s a good guide not to get dragged down the road of stakeholder management and doing things on whatever issue because there’s a very loud group demanding that you do it”

Which I take to mean that they aren’t going to take a blind bit of notice of people having tantrums on Twitter.

Just to follow up on this point.

There was an article in the Mail today talking about how noises were coming out of Angela Rayner's camp that she was being effectively side lined in the Deputy PM role

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13633267/Angela-Rayner-allies-fear-frozen-fortnight-Labour-government.html

Now Rayner is definitely regarded as a darling of the left of the party.

Of course I suspect the Mail is trying to build up the concept of a split / civil war within the Labour Party for it's own agenda, but I do think it's worth keeping a close eye on what's happening because there is a chance there's also some substance to this because of the noise we are hearing on womens rights and puberty blockers.

As I said immediately after the election, the manner of Labour's victory gives little room for them to move in terms of winning enough votes for a second term because of how sitting governments tend to get punished at the ballot box. They have a few options - polarise and move more left, or work on trust and credibility and competence to win more of the centre ground.

Going left is riskier with Reform and aligning yourself with people who swear that a bepenised individual can be a woman.

Angela Rayner allies 'fear she is being frozen out'

Angela Rayner is said to have been sidelined on key policy areas as Keir Starmer settles in after the election landslide.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13633267/Angela-Rayner-allies-fear-frozen-fortnight-Labour-government.html

RedToothBrush · 14/07/2024 23:12

Datun · 14/07/2024 22:57

I would dearly love to see someone ask Jolyon why all these children are gender distressed.

What is the reason? I'd like to see him actually say they're 'born in the wrong body'.

And if he daren't lest he looks like an unhinged loon, then let's hear some bloody reasons.

He can't answer the question because of how it's now agreed the phrase is deeply offensive and actively harmful.

So he's avoidant. Avoidant lawyers are telling you something if you pay attention.

ShillingForLabour · 14/07/2024 23:18

All those suicide threats in the responses! It’s like a mass incantation. So much disordered thinking.

I am glad WS is doing this, I didn’t believe he was genuine when he seemed to have turned around before.

Datun · 14/07/2024 23:25

RedToothBrush · 14/07/2024 23:12

He can't answer the question because of how it's now agreed the phrase is deeply offensive and actively harmful.

So he's avoidant. Avoidant lawyers are telling you something if you pay attention.

Indeed. And you'd think that if TRAs are going to leverage children's mental health to the extent of accusing a government minister of killing them, they would be getting asked these unanswerable questions.

PeppercornMill · 14/07/2024 23:46

How did all those trans adults and activists make it to adulthood without puberty blockers?

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 15/07/2024 07:24

BBC with their finger on the pulse Hmm

https://x.com/journalismseen/status/1812730702665838997?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

WarriorN · 15/07/2024 07:27

SquirrelSoShiny · 14/07/2024 22:22

I'm actually concerned for the young autistic people reading that they're all going to die by suicide because of the hateful bile activists are writing online. For some autistic youth, black and white thinking puts them at risk of thinking 'I'm not allowed puberty blockers so I have to kill myself now.' It's a variation of 'I like Lego and cars so I must be a boy.'

In other words these activists are putting children at risk AND THEY DON'T CARE. Instead of telling confused teenagers, 'It's going to be okay, wait and see,' they are telling them, 'Your job is to kill yourself so we can go YOU SEE?! WE TOLD YOU SO! NOW GIVE US HALF A MILLION TO START A NEW QUEER CHARITY!'

To say I hold these people in contempt is much too mild. They are actively harming children. THEY are the hateful bigots, not the rest of sane society.

Absolutely.

Jolyn et al (including a number of MPs it seems) are creating a false belief.

borntobequiet · 15/07/2024 07:32

There was an article in the Mail today talking about how noises were coming out of Angela Rayner's camp that she was being effectively side lined in the Deputy PM role

I always thought Deputy PM was a bit of a vanity role anyway, that could be deployed either to give status or to sideline, or a bit of both, as in the appointment of John Prescott in Blair’s government.

borntobequiet · 15/07/2024 07:35

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 15/07/2024 07:24

People other than us must be increasingly puzzled by the difference between how these issues are covered by the BBC and most other media.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 15/07/2024 07:40

I think the Angela Rayner originally appeared in Telegraph. When I went to look for it though, I saw it had been picked up everywhere. Might have been pushed off the front pages by Trump

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/13/labours-first-week-allies-fear-angela-rayner-frozen-out/

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 08:13

PeppercornMill · 14/07/2024 23:46

How did all those trans adults and activists make it to adulthood without puberty blockers?

Either Magic.

Or they didn't have a bunch of middle aged males and their clueless friends literally cheerleading for them to kill themselves.

drspouse · 15/07/2024 08:16

SinnerBoy · 14/07/2024 14:55

fromorbit · Today 14:30

Sex Matters have kept the receipts over the last few days.

Many Tweets accusing Wes Streeting of murder etc.

^https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTFI4MP0OIZjvJXS-DFZ1AWAOsI75mIxqoW7obyKCxVc5PGUnmoFS4IR9shHCeqlyfPZe5XsNcK9YaL/pub^

Blimey, that's completely unhinged in its entirety.

It is the usual suspects though...

Brainworm · 15/07/2024 08:35

When patients turn up at CAHMS with suicidal ideation, the treating professionals support the young people with their overwhelming. They help them process their feelings and understand the source of distress. For example, if the young person is struggling with bullying or abuse, they make referrals and expect others to address those issues. They carry on with the psychological treatment.

If any YP experience suicide ideation and understand this as arising from not being prescribed puberty blockers, mental health professionals can and should treat the YP for this and help them process and cope with the feelings arising. THIS is the message that JM and co should be giving- e.g. 'we know that many families will be worried about this. We don't want you to worry. There are plenty of us fighting your corner and we think are taking action to get this sorted. In the meantime, if you are feeling distressed, mental health practitioners can help you feel better'.

RoyalCorgi · 15/07/2024 09:04

It is quite gratifying to see how unhinged some of the responses to Streeting are. You'd think these people would be smart enough to at least try to appear sane when responding to the secretary of state for health, but apparently not. Streeting is now getting a very very small taste of what Rosie Duffield has been through over the past few years.

I notice a lot of them accuse Streeting of taking notice of Rowling rather than medical experts - apparently completely oblivious to the Cass review, conducted by a respected paediatrician with a team of researchers over a period of several years. Are they really this stupid or deliberately distorting the facts?

I am feeling cautiously positive about Streeting's stance. Once we stop pushing medical interventions on vulnerable gender-dysphoric children and young adults, the whole trend for those children to "identify" as the opposite sex will come to an end, I think. They will simply grow out of it as they hit puberty, or at worst they will dye their hair blue and call themselves "non-binary".

If we lose the idea of the "trans" child who is born in the wrong body and liable to kill themselves without recourse to hormones, then it will be clear that what we are left with is a bunch of middle-aged blokes who derive a sexual kick from wearing a dress and flaunting their bits in women's changing rooms. That will, one hopes, be difficult for people like Annaliese Dodds and her colleagues to defend.

RoyalCorgi · 15/07/2024 09:32

Also interesting to see Zac Goldsmith retweet JK Rowling with a very forceful comment:

https://x.com/ZacGoldsmith/status/1812502371974463736

For those not on X, the comment is: "There’s no obvious upside. But the downside includes irreversible & lifelong harm to children’s bodies, sterility, withered genitals, cancer, osteoporosis, unknown but likely grave effects on brain development. For the zealots none of this matters because ideology is more important than actual children. They are appalling."

x.com

https://x.com/ZacGoldsmith/status/1812502371974463736

OldCrone · 15/07/2024 10:11

If we lose the idea of the "trans" child who is born in the wrong body and liable to kill themselves without recourse to hormones, then it will be clear that what we are left with is a bunch of middle-aged blokes who derive a sexual kick from wearing a dress and flaunting their bits in women's changing rooms.

Which, of course, is why 'trans children' were invented in the first place.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 15/07/2024 10:12

"Naturally occurring". Hence throwing toys out the pram now they can't experiment on kids. Make it make sense.

https://x.com/nancymmk/status/1812722299356815819?s=46&t=WHoOZ3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

"The "risk" that stalks the debate about PB, from Cass to this thread is the "risk" a trans child will grow up to be a trans adult. If you believe (as I do) that being trans is a naturally occurring part of human diversity, the picture looks very different."