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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Close friends falling victim to the 'girl mum' 'boy mum' camp

66 replies

Headsspinning · 11/07/2024 15:58

A fee minths have passed since I visited an old friend after the birth of her fourth daughter. I have two daughters of similar age to her eldest two. Another friend joined us for coffee and she is the mother of two boys. I don't know how the conversation got out of control but it turned nasty and I feel horrible and shameful, especially since it had happened a while ago and there has been radio silence.

My friend with the four daughters commented on how well her baby is doing and was up front in mentioning how some of her inlaws and husbands friends have made silly remarks about her husband being lonely in a house full of women, poor Daddy comments etc the usual guff. My friend laughed it off and said she always laughs at it and then remarked on how she was delighted to have her fourth girl and that she was sorry for stating the obvious. Then said "there's a reason I'm not a mum of boys, I don't think I'm suited to it or cut out for it and Mother Nature knows I wouldn't make a good mum of a son". My friend, who was feeding her baby boy, looked at her said "what's the difference, then?" And this is where it got heated. A lot of back and forth about how violent men can be, how the "good men" are hailed as "extra-special", the number of ex partners and and ex husbands who have abused, attacked and murdered women, global male violence; relational aggression in teenage girls, hormones, sexist beliefs, internalised misogyny, boy mums etc my friend said she didn't think girls were saints or that she had it all worked out on how to raise her girls, she just started crying about how she thinks women and girls are treated as victims. She then said the knky reason she would have wanted a son was to appease her inlaws her kept going on about wanting a grandson. Then after all thr back and forth, my friend with the boys got up, pushed her chair out and said I don't want to ever say your face again. Stay away from my sons and I hope you and your girls live a happy little life in girl hell and good luck to your husband". I feel horrible and guilty because I didn't say anything or do anything, I was a passive participant and feel like two friends are now lost due to categorising themselves as 'girl mums' or 'boy mums'. Anyone have any advice - should I reach out or leave things and see if I hear anything? It's been over two months and I would like to see both of them again and make amends.

OP posts:
multimillionaire · 12/07/2024 07:53

biscuitandcake · 11/07/2024 19:59

Do you think she took out her defensiveness/frustrations on the wrong person? It sounds likes she was getting flack for having only girls, so has been stewing over all the reasons that girls are good. And then unleashed that on your other friend who understandably reacted poorly.
I have seen it happen before where, e.g. stay at home mums feel judged for not working and then start talking about all the reasons it is better for their child that they are home with them. Which then offends the working mum's who responds and it gets toxic very quickly.

I am not sure if there is much you can do though...

Yeah, its this isnt it?

Whenever people go out of their way to be unkind to others or to put them down/act superior its usually because there is an insecurity there and they're projecting.

Not saying its right but I would bet she has a bit of an issue about having all girls and is taking it out on your mutual friend.

No, you cant do anything because it's an issue within her that she needs to address and only she can do that. Shame, as she'll end up alienating people and then wondering why she has no friends left.

tiddletiddleboomboom · 12/07/2024 07:59

If men are all violent misogynists why on earth did she have 4 kids with one?

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 12/07/2024 08:18

Is there a cultural element to this? I don't really recognise the preference for sons that you have mentioned, and I don't really think this is a thing any more except in certain communities. And I know that parents of multiple boys tend to get similar comments about mum being outnumbered etc.

It all sounds like a lot of unnecessary drama to me in any case, so probably better to distance yourself from these people in any case, and find some nicer friends!

newyorkhotel · 12/07/2024 08:24

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 12/07/2024 08:18

Is there a cultural element to this? I don't really recognise the preference for sons that you have mentioned, and I don't really think this is a thing any more except in certain communities. And I know that parents of multiple boys tend to get similar comments about mum being outnumbered etc.

It all sounds like a lot of unnecessary drama to me in any case, so probably better to distance yourself from these people in any case, and find some nicer friends!

I dont recognise this either- I have two boys and got lots of sympathetic looks when I had my second and people telling me "oh never mind, you can try for a girl next time" etc. So rude.

I also dont really understand why people seem to think they are destined to have one or the other- its 50/50 random chance that you'll get either and its not something you can control anyway so its a bit pointless/ignorant to berate/judge someone for the gender of their child when its out of their control anyway!

ZeldaFighter · 12/07/2024 08:26

I once joked about how if you're a mum of girls, you worry they might get raped and muns of boys worry they might be rapists!!! It did not go down well!!! My friend with boys did not appreciate the suggestion that boys might go bad as adults.

I have never joked about this sort of stuff again!

LilyBartsHatShop · 12/07/2024 08:54

@Headsspinning "I'm more concerned about her mental health and this is why I came on her as j don't think I can't chat to my family or husband about this without feeling ridiculous."
I think you're right to be concerned. Her baby was a few weeks old and you say she was acting completely out of character, but also telling you that she's finding this baby really easy? And now she's not talking to you but unclear why she'd cut you out?
I guess you can only do what you can do, but if I were you I'd try to get in touch with her in any way you can, let her know you're worried.

biscuitandcake · 12/07/2024 08:57

ZeldaFighter · 12/07/2024 08:26

I once joked about how if you're a mum of girls, you worry they might get raped and muns of boys worry they might be rapists!!! It did not go down well!!! My friend with boys did not appreciate the suggestion that boys might go bad as adults.

I have never joked about this sort of stuff again!

Edited

My sister once commented in a thoughtful way that when you think about it unborn babies are the perfect parasites. Its technically true, but you have to be careful of your audience.

ZeldaFighter · 12/07/2024 09:11

biscuitandcake · 12/07/2024 08:57

My sister once commented in a thoughtful way that when you think about it unborn babies are the perfect parasites. Its technically true, but you have to be careful of your audience.

Oh yes, absolutely! But also don't mention how the chest-burster scene in the (1979) Alien film is a perfect metaphor for pregnancy! (Forcibly implanted in the host by an insertion tube, leaves in a shower of blood and pain that usually destroys the host)

Never discuss these things with pregnant women, even the cool ones!!!!

Collexifon · 12/07/2024 09:12

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2024 16:03

Let them grow up?

Seriously. It's pathetic. The whole thing. I'd want shot of both of them.

This. 100%

ZeldaFighter · 12/07/2024 09:16

Headsspinning · 11/07/2024 15:58

A fee minths have passed since I visited an old friend after the birth of her fourth daughter. I have two daughters of similar age to her eldest two. Another friend joined us for coffee and she is the mother of two boys. I don't know how the conversation got out of control but it turned nasty and I feel horrible and shameful, especially since it had happened a while ago and there has been radio silence.

My friend with the four daughters commented on how well her baby is doing and was up front in mentioning how some of her inlaws and husbands friends have made silly remarks about her husband being lonely in a house full of women, poor Daddy comments etc the usual guff. My friend laughed it off and said she always laughs at it and then remarked on how she was delighted to have her fourth girl and that she was sorry for stating the obvious. Then said "there's a reason I'm not a mum of boys, I don't think I'm suited to it or cut out for it and Mother Nature knows I wouldn't make a good mum of a son". My friend, who was feeding her baby boy, looked at her said "what's the difference, then?" And this is where it got heated. A lot of back and forth about how violent men can be, how the "good men" are hailed as "extra-special", the number of ex partners and and ex husbands who have abused, attacked and murdered women, global male violence; relational aggression in teenage girls, hormones, sexist beliefs, internalised misogyny, boy mums etc my friend said she didn't think girls were saints or that she had it all worked out on how to raise her girls, she just started crying about how she thinks women and girls are treated as victims. She then said the knky reason she would have wanted a son was to appease her inlaws her kept going on about wanting a grandson. Then after all thr back and forth, my friend with the boys got up, pushed her chair out and said I don't want to ever say your face again. Stay away from my sons and I hope you and your girls live a happy little life in girl hell and good luck to your husband". I feel horrible and guilty because I didn't say anything or do anything, I was a passive participant and feel like two friends are now lost due to categorising themselves as 'girl mums' or 'boy mums'. Anyone have any advice - should I reach out or leave things and see if I hear anything? It's been over two months and I would like to see both of them again and make amends.

OP, could you try texting each friend individually (can't be blocked? I don't know) and saying "It's been a few months and I hope the dust has settled since the horrible events of April. I still want to be friends - would you like to meet up?"

No reply - move on.

So far, I've heard of 4 sets of inseparable mum friends falling out - sometimes it happens. Look for other friends.

MrsWimpy · 12/07/2024 09:32

Girl mums MIGHT think they have it easy but my god wait till she has 4 teenage girls in the house.

The whole thing is ridiculous. You become the parent that your child needs.

Grammarnut · 12/07/2024 10:03

Happyinarcon · 11/07/2024 16:13

my friend with the boys got up, pushed her chair out and said I don't want to ever say your face again. Stay away from my sons and I hope you and your girls live a happy little life in girl hell and good luck to your husband".

Damn, were you writing this down or something? I wish I had friends this dramatic.

Almost worthy of a Greek tragedy.

Kanelsnegl · 12/07/2024 10:11

newyorkhotel · 12/07/2024 08:24

I dont recognise this either- I have two boys and got lots of sympathetic looks when I had my second and people telling me "oh never mind, you can try for a girl next time" etc. So rude.

I also dont really understand why people seem to think they are destined to have one or the other- its 50/50 random chance that you'll get either and its not something you can control anyway so its a bit pointless/ignorant to berate/judge someone for the gender of their child when its out of their control anyway!

Yeah I just have one boy and have already had several comments of "oh that's alright you might have your girl next time"
Horrible horrible attitude to have whatever way it goes, putting so much pressure on little babies to be a certain way before they're even born.
I love my son more than I imagined I could love anything ever and I would have felt the same if he had been a girl. I love him for the person he is and that he is becoming not for his chromosomes.

newyorkhotel · 12/07/2024 10:58

Kanelsnegl · 12/07/2024 10:11

Yeah I just have one boy and have already had several comments of "oh that's alright you might have your girl next time"
Horrible horrible attitude to have whatever way it goes, putting so much pressure on little babies to be a certain way before they're even born.
I love my son more than I imagined I could love anything ever and I would have felt the same if he had been a girl. I love him for the person he is and that he is becoming not for his chromosomes.

Exactly. It's a horrible attitude and it speaks volumes about the person who says it to someone who has just given birth to a baby they love.

Sockmate123 · 12/07/2024 11:27

Grammarnut · 12/07/2024 10:03

Almost worthy of a Greek tragedy.

Greek tragedy lmao 🤣

muggart · 12/07/2024 15:14

It sounds like you didn't say much and it was primarily a dispute between the 2 others so I don't understand why they are ignoring you?

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