Close friends falling victim to the 'girl mum' 'boy mum' camp

[Headsspinning]

A fee minths have passed since I visited an old friend after the birth of her fourth daughter. I have two daughters of similar age to her eldest two. Another friend joined us for coffee and she is the mother of two boys. I don't know how the conversation got out of control but it turned nasty and I feel horrible and shameful, especially since it had happened a while ago and there has been radio silence.

My friend with the four daughters commented on how well her baby is doing and was up front in mentioning how some of her inlaws and husbands friends have made silly remarks about her husband being lonely in a house full of women, poor Daddy comments etc the usual guff. My friend laughed it off and said she always laughs at it and then remarked on how she was delighted to have her fourth girl and that she was sorry for stating the obvious. Then said "there's a reason I'm not a mum of boys, I don't think I'm suited to it or cut out for it and Mother Nature knows I wouldn't make a good mum of a son". My friend, who was feeding her baby boy, looked at her said "what's the difference, then?" And this is where it got heated. A lot of back and forth about how violent men can be, how the "good men" are hailed as "extra-special", the number of ex partners and and ex husbands who have abused, attacked and murdered women, global male violence; relational aggression in teenage girls, hormones, sexist beliefs, internalised misogyny, boy mums etc my friend said she didn't think girls were saints or that she had it all worked out on how to raise her girls, she just started crying about how she thinks women and girls are treated as victims. She then said the knky reason she would have wanted a son was to appease her inlaws her kept going on about wanting a grandson. Then after all thr back and forth, my friend with the boys got up, pushed her chair out and said I don't want to ever say your face again. Stay away from my sons and I hope you and your girls live a happy little life in girl hell and good luck to your husband". I feel horrible and guilty because I didn't say anything or do anything, I was a passive participant and feel like two friends are now lost due to categorising themselves as 'girl mums' or 'boy mums'. Anyone have any advice - should I reach out or leave things and see if I hear anything? It's been over two months and I would like to see both of them again and make amends.

Let them grow up?

Seriously. It's pathetic. The whole thing. I'd want shot of both of them.

I couldn't be bothered. Let them reach out to you.

They can't be that close if this ridiculous exchange has caused a permanent three way rift.

my friend with the boys got up, pushed her chair out and said I don't want to ever say your face again. Stay away from my sons and I hope you and your girls live a happy little life in girl hell and good luck to your husband".

Damn, were you writing this down or something? I wish I had friends this dramatic.

I suppose it would be hard to be a mum of gorgeous innocent baby boys and have your friend (who is a mum of girls), basically imply they'll grow up to be arseholes. I'm kind of not surprised she took offence at that tbh. Even though mum of girls isn't wrong about men as a class, being more prone to violence etc than women.

Ultimately statistics mean nothing in an argument between friends because, on an individual level, it's about character not sex.

There is a weird thing atm where girls are seen as the preferable sex to have (at least in this part of the world). Mum if boys is likely pissed off at people acting like she got an inferior baby because it's a boy. 'Girl mum's' can be a bit smug and annoying.

Maybe try to see them both separately for a while. And stay out of the dispute - you didn't cause it, not your problem to fix.

It might be a stupid identity thing - I hate the self categorising as boy mum/girl mum. It could also possibly be that your girl mum friend has some sort of trauma etc. I know saying "trauma" excuses a lot of stuff but I personally know people who basically lived through a war zone and saw/experienced awful stuff. They did really struggle with being the idea of how to parent boys. (And also were weird with their daughters but that's another subject) Which is tragic and awful but I think the impact of very traumatic things like (for example) childhood rape on future parenting isn't talked about. Especially if it involves siblings etc. Either way it probably is for the best that the girl mum didn't have boys.

People stating a preference for girls is odd though - because wherever sex-selected IVF is used (including in the West) there is still a preference for boys. So there is a weird sort of dishonesty going on...

I only say that because this "she just started crying about how she thinks women and girls are treated as victims." seems like quite an overreaction to a theoretical discussion. She might also just be hormonal though.

If one of my friends sat and reeled off a list of all the ways my 2 year old son was going to grow up to be a violent, misogynist threat to women I would probably tell her where to shove it as well.

Gosh, I'm a mum of two boys and I'd find that very hard to take. If one of my friends spoke about my children in those terms I really don't think I'd be able get past that and maintain a relationship with them. It goes far beyond the usual mum-of-boys nonsense that I'm aware of which normally focuses on how much louder, more boisterous, messy boys are compared to girls (and I do think that is nonsense by the way!). As a mum of boys I know I have a responsibility to educate them on how to be a good man, and it's something I'm particularly mindful of as my eldest reaches his teen years. Your mum-of-girls friend seems to suggest that it's a foregone conclusion that all boys grow into misogynists which is ridiculous and in most circumstances I'd be distancing myself from her immediately. I might cut her some slack because she's got a newborn and may be suffering mental health problems. I also wonder if she is also having issues with her DH which are influencing her view of men? Only you can know whether it's worth broaching this with her and trying to save the friendship, but I don't think you should leave those views unchallenged.

When women speak like the “girl mum” they have likely had bad experiences with men in their past. People don’t automatically start hating boys or girls.

The girl mum sounds insane and TBH she probably shouldn’t have had 4 children when there was a high chance at least one of them would be a boy.

I would steer clear of girl mum.

It's too late now. I'd have checked in with them the next day, asking if they were ok.

You didn't.

Seems to me like insecurities on both sides could be the cause. Let them get on with it

As for checking in with them, I should have stated i have texted both of them and tried to contact them via various channels but no answer. And as for the previous poster, I'm not at loose ends, or bored - I'm taking a risk by reaching out on this channel where potentially this could be seen and traced back. I've spoken to my husband but I feel ridiculous and dramatic and think in the grand scheme of things it isn't worth pulling other people into it. I don't know how it came to the girl mum, boy mum think. Maybe because boys have been prized for so long. Who knows anyway thanks for the advice.

Girl mum sounds a bit heavy. I probably wouldn't have reacted as vehemently as boy mum though but tbh she was a bit offensive.

Girl babies and boy babies are just that... Babies. Very little difference. Both nice if you like that sort of thing (I don't, I think most babies look like ugly little larvae but I'd never dream of saying that).

And all toddlers, both the girl and boy variety, are terrific. Crazy little bundles of energy just running everywhere, exploring everything and running their "owners" ragged.

It's a bit scary to think of girl mum sitting in the playground outwardly smiling, but inwardly honing in on any pint-sized male who might approach her precious girls as a potential threat 😬.

This is what came up, the whole preference for boys. Isn't that part of the "problem"? Why is there a preference, a sense of entitlement.. calle it naivety, but I don't understand the preference for a son or a daughter and thats why I feel stuck between two sides. The mum of daughters is hormonal but is also dealing with sexist remarks towards having daughters. I think we know she's capable and intelligent and mature enough to rise above remarks but even still, the fact that things are said about innocent girl children.

Same

Nah way too much drama going on here
They just enjoy their children and teach them to grow up as good and decent citizens, the boys AND the girls. I managed to do this fine with my sons. Nobody ever suggested they would grow up to be violent thugs.
They would be no friend of mine if they had!!

Talk about an intense lunch!!! 😳

Just ditch them both or continue the friendship independently with each although that's awkward. Although my bestie has a friend I genuinely cannot stand but I can 'tolerate' her at birthdays etc

Have you seen either of them since??

I have one of each btw and both equally challenging and rewarding but in different ways!

It was never like this before the second son and fourth daughter. I remember the girl mum was very sweet to her nephews and invited boys to her girls' birthday parties (sounds ridiculous but if she was so anti-boy child, why would she have them around her daughter). She did say during the meeting that her husband was distant after their last girl, and she felt she was imagining things. Our boy mum friend then said her husband is so hands on and loves taking them out. This is where it got personal. I chimed in to say girls and Dad's can have a bond too, obviously. Yes it's all dramatic and heavy but I'm trying to help us get over this. I think maybe my friend is taking on the sexist remarks and is laughing them off because she knows how stupid it all is. She did say she was worried her daughters would have a lot of competition for good men and thag she admires mums of sons as she feels they are treated as superior and they have birthed sons so j think there's a religious side to this that is impacting her mental health I'm more concerned about her mental health and this is why I came on her as j don't think I can't chat to my family or husband about this without feeling ridiculous.

This. I don't think "boy mum" was in the wrong at all. "Girl mum" was completely out of order to talk about those issues in that context.

From what you said "boy mum" wasn't choosing to identify as such as you suggest in your OP. She was just listening to girl mum sound off and was justifiably pissed off.

The elephant in the room is that a good number of the cute baby boys will become abusers.
Of course no mum wants to believe it could be theirs but it has to be someone’s baby!
It is not a personal attack, just statistics.