Close friends falling victim to the 'girl mum' 'boy mum' camp

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A fee minths have passed since I visited an old friend after the birth of her fourth daughter. I have two daughters of similar age to her eldest two. Another friend joined us for coffee and she is the mother of two boys. I don't know how the conversation got out of control but it turned nasty and I feel horrible and shameful, especially since it had happened a while ago and there has been radio silence.

My friend with the four daughters commented on how well her baby is doing and was up front in mentioning how some of her inlaws and husbands friends have made silly remarks about her husband being lonely in a house full of women, poor Daddy comments etc the usual guff. My friend laughed it off and said she always laughs at it and then remarked on how she was delighted to have her fourth girl and that she was sorry for stating the obvious. Then said "there's a reason I'm not a mum of boys, I don't think I'm suited to it or cut out for it and Mother Nature knows I wouldn't make a good mum of a son". My friend, who was feeding her baby boy, looked at her said "what's the difference, then?" And this is where it got heated. A lot of back and forth about how violent men can be, how the "good men" are hailed as "extra-special", the number of ex partners and and ex husbands who have abused, attacked and murdered women, global male violence; relational aggression in teenage girls, hormones, sexist beliefs, internalised misogyny, boy mums etc my friend said she didn't think girls were saints or that she had it all worked out on how to raise her girls, she just started crying about how she thinks women and girls are treated as victims. She then said the knky reason she would have wanted a son was to appease her inlaws her kept going on about wanting a grandson. Then after all thr back and forth, my friend with the boys got up, pushed her chair out and said I don't want to ever say your face again. Stay away from my sons and I hope you and your girls live a happy little life in girl hell and good luck to your husband". I feel horrible and guilty because I didn't say anything or do anything, I was a passive participant and feel like two friends are now lost due to categorising themselves as 'girl mums' or 'boy mums'. Anyone have any advice - should I reach out or leave things and see if I hear anything? It's been over two months and I would like to see both of them again and make amends.

I thought this was a forum, but apparently it's a "channel" now? How trendy. Sort of goes with your very up to the minute list of coffee morning hot topics:

"how violent men can be, how the "good men" are hailed as "extra-special", the number of ex partners and and ex husbands who have abused, attacked and murdered women, global male violence; relational aggression in teenage girls, hormones, sexist beliefs, internalised misogyny, boy mums etc.. " Did any of you have time to pause for a sip of your mocha?

If this even happened, my advice would be to get out more.

Why not cull them at birth then 🙄? Or lock them all in cages to protect the ickle little baby girls?

Yes, what you've said is numerically true, but baby boys are not raised in a vacuum. They don't become abusers because they are fundamentally flawed from birth, but because we live in an unequal, violent, heavily gendered society that gives boys and men harmful messages about their role and what they can get away with.

And it starts with treating male babies differently from female babies. Less interactions, less affection, more rough play, more physical risk-taking encouraged.

Yes this!

I'm a feminist and believe in fighting for women's rights. But I don't act or speak as if ALL men are awful, violent and horrible. I know they are not!
How fucking rude and OTT she was. If I was the "boy mum" I'd be telling her to shove her friendship up her prized vagina as well.

Yes you're right Miss Marple, this is all made up. Does that satisfy you? As for using the incorrect term, "channel" rather than forum - this is what you highlight? My account is detailed because I've been going over this in my head for a while, you know while balancing everyday life. So maybe you need to get out more. I appreciate it sounds dramatic but I'm not going to argue with you over something that has affected me and you smugly suggesting I'm exaggerating. They were two close friends which is why I am worried. I don't have a wide friendship group and I thought motherhood would give us a deeper connection, like I said my two girls are friends with her older daughters.
I may be needy and wanting to make a friendship work.

Yes, I agree. I’m actually a mum of two girls but I can’t stand it when boys are spoken of as if they are all would be abusers and misogynists. I also hate the terms ‘girl mum’ and ‘boy mum’ and would never use them myself.

I can't help wondering if the mum of 4 girls had been subject to 'not another girl' comments and got upset. But took it out on the innocent mum of the boy? Perhaps her husband, much as he clearly adores his girls, was indeed disappointed at not having a son as well and it all got too much?

I'm sorry for being unkind. I think the flip side of my critical comment that it all sounds a bit try-hard is the genuine terror I have of the danger to girls and women it so powerfully invokes.

I hope things get resolved between your friends, and you get the more harmonious dynamic back. It's lamentable that they've fallen out so hard, especially over the horrendous stuff some males do.

Perhaps this it. I have two daughters but wouldn't like to think my husband was disappointed. I think that's a little entitled and selfish to want one sex over the other ( but that's a differnt story). As I said, my friend was up front about the comments she has received by inlaws and friends - I told her we all get that. I was a little offended when she said boy mums are seen as superior. I don't think ill of men or boys - I think my 'boy mum' friend was rightly defensive. It was all so intense and was such a weird experience which is why I feel horrible and strange. My friend of daughters said she felt overwhelmed by the degree of male inflicted violence we hear about and how she thought she wasnt fit to bring up a boy and she thinks she wouldnt be strong enough hence her Mother Nature knows best comments.she also said that she didn't think all girls were saints and this is where my other friend talked about teenage girls and bullying etc A combination of hormones and maybe something serious going in re postnatal. thanks for the responses.

Your friend with the daughters was behaving like a right twat. It's galling enough when people say moronic things like 'god / nature knew I wouldn't be good at ...' for her to go in to spout such offensive crap about boys, she deserved everything she got. Silly mare.

Yes it happened in April, not quite a full 3 months. I've tried to reach out to no avail. Never knew how easy it was to avoid/block people the way they have me.

Yes the Mother Nature comment I think is her feeling like her children were chosen for her. Many people think that about their children though, I know i do. I'm not religious though. Although I think the sexist comments about girls are weird too. We hear this all the time about poor Daddy etc it grinds my ears but I'm too old and been through too much of life to care. My friend with the four girls was convinced her inlaws were judging her and her daughters and o was thinking her brain went into overdrive and that when she went on a whole diatribe thinking boys aren't all that. They are both usually kind people. one drama that has blown everything up. It's quite pathetic that I've let this get to me so much. And I didn't intervene at the time. Was taken back by the intensity of the conversation and the exchange between two educated, kindhearted women. Her comments about her girls growing up and how if they choose to get marriedand/or plan to have children, there will be more competition for the good men. It was like sitting in on an extremist conversation and it has affected me.

Channel is a Discord thing, no?

I have children of both sexes and couldn’t be arsed with arguing about something so
arbitrary.

You get what you get and it’s all up
to the sperm 🤷‍♀️

The main difference between mine (apart from all having unique personalities) is the boy children ended up almost a foot taller than me and the girl children didn’t (and thus the girl children borrowed more of my clothes/shoes and I got loads of hand me downs from the boys - for a couple of years all my gym shirts came from my sons closet. Alas, they have stopped outgrowing things now).

Do you think she took out her defensiveness/frustrations on the wrong person? It sounds likes she was getting flack for having only girls, so has been stewing over all the reasons that girls are good. And then unleashed that on your other friend who understandably reacted poorly.
I have seen it happen before where, e.g. stay at home mums feel judged for not working and then start talking about all the reasons it is better for their child that they are home with them. Which then offends the working mum's who responds and it gets toxic very quickly.

I am not sure if there is much you can do though...

Has this thread been moved here from elsewhere? Why?

I think its partly why - but then things got extreme on both ends. The mum of boys said some stereotypical things about girls too. For something so trivial, it felt too extreme to dismiss. And yes, maybe if people didn't give her such flack for having girls. I know this doesn't excuse the rant about men

Maybe i started the conversation in the 'wrong' forum lol jeez people are so easily pissed off on mumnet. First time on it it so forgive me for not posting correctly lol

Also is this only a gender and sex discussion in the intellectual sense? Surely heated everyday conversations between everyday people feature on forums such as this.

Isn't this a normal human reaction. - to reframe? Surely we all exhibit a certain level of defensiveness particularly when we feel under pressure? Maybe if sexism towards havong all girls didn't exist it would be easier to get on rather than jumping on the girl mum vs boy mum bandwagon? Yes in an ideal world we'd all be secure, mature individuals and have all the answers. Th

Quite. Almost asked, a few hours ago. It's not extremist to speak clearly about male violence. Unless worded in generalities, such a convo with a parent of boys is unlikely to go well, though.

It sounds like they've already ditched you. If it's all as you say, then I wouldn't be spending any more effort on either of them. Time for some new friends

I've used extremist incorrectly. I meant the conversation was so extreme, nothing was off the table and it got more and more heated. The new baby girl ( a few weeks old was tugging at her mum) it was genuinely worrying to witness. She was so upset the comments from her inlaws and said she loves her girls more than anything. Then the tears came. The boy mum said she's sorry but it's not her sons' who have caused pain in the world. I told my husband about this and he rolled his eyes and said most men are good so we don't have to worry. My own husband has rolled his eyes about being a 'girl dad' (I despise these terms) and he's usually very logical. I worried about both women and I tried to be a good friend by asking after them. Maybe they're getting on with their lives and the children are all ok. I just saw the tears in my friend's eyes and thought this has really knocked her - I think hormones plus mistreatment from inlaws.

Hear hear.

I have two boys and wouldn't want anything to do with your 'girl mum' friend.

FWR is not extremist.

Yes, me too. I would also think the same if it was a mum of boys saying it to a mum of girls. Its just rude and completely unnecessary.

Also the whole "its just as well I'm not a boy/girl mum" is literally so stupid anyway- what would have happened if she did have a boy- given him back to the midwife and said "yeah, no thanks, put him up for adoption"?

The whole thing is just pathetic and childish.