New secondary school has a "Queer Club", would you potentially be concerned about this and what questions or steps would you take?

[Valdor]

Hello everyone,

Leafing through the new school materials I have in preparation for my child to attend in September, I was looking for information on the basketball club (which, to my disappointment, is only a 20-minute session once a week). However, I also found information about a “Queer Club,” which meets for 35 minutes weekly. There were no further details provided about this club, though I have asked the school for some.

Now, I, as I’m sure some of you, have concerns about the way queer and trans ideology has been taught in schools over the past 5-8 years. This includes the celebration, self-diagnosis, transitioning, and medicalisation aspects.

At the same time, I want to clarify that I am completely supportive of same-sex attracted, non-stereotypical children and am entirely opposed to rigid gender norms.

What concerns, if any, would you have about this club? What questions would you be asking the school to ensure it is safe and fit for purpose?

I’m looking for some guidance on how to approach this with the school and to make sure our children are in a supportive and safe environment.

Thank you for your insights!

There is a good argument that queer does not cover gay and in fact makes gay people a minority under the LGBTQ umbrella

Many schools now have these.

They are usually for lgbt and straight allies which in practice means anyone who wants to come can come.

I understand your concerns around trans; many students who are lesbian or gay do report feeling lonely and unsupported at school and these clubs are a good way of addressing that.

Certainly the ones I have seen at my school actually are not focused on sexuality or sex education but rather they play jenga, make posters for anti-bullying week, and generally do socialising activities in an atmosphere where it is acceptable to be lesbian or gay.

There can (still!) be homophobic bullying in schools and these clubs help gay and lesbian students know that they are not the only ones in the school (which it can feel like for some) and also the teachers usually regularly do a slot on what to do if someone is bullying you because you are gay.

I’d be asking why they are using the Q word which is still a slur and isn’t for gay kids (in which case - what the fuck?).

Can't remember if I name changed for it but I did a thread about my autistic DD attending an LGBTQ club then getting very anxious about her lack of sexuality.

I had some good responses on here and wrote to the head. We eventually pulled her from the school mostly because they were failing her SEN wise but I was glad to get her away from that as well.

The worst thing was it was literally the only lunch club that occurred at the school (I checked).

I never got a straight answer from the school about any of it but add to the list what training do they have to discuss sex and sexuality with mixed aged children that have SEN so might be developmentally behind their peers or have less understanding.

In my area these clubs also seem mainly to be about nerdy kids doing things like games, baking, and so on. And from what I've seen on this thread, and elsewhere, that seems to be the norm.

I think it's quite negative that these kids who want to hang out together and and find a place in a friendship group need to create some kind of sexuality referenced persona in order for that to happen.

Just reading through the thread again I cannot believe the number of people who think it's lovely, especially the ones mentioning SEN children maybe they don't care about how confusing and indoctrinated girls like my DD can get attending these clubs.

After all she's a girl so already the world thinks she's unimportant and even worst she's autistic so even less considered

My daughter decided she was most likely lesbian by 8 years old which if anything I was pleased about because she’d never have to hide her sexuality or come out.
When she was due to start secondary school I saw that there was an LGBTQ+ club but it was for 13yr olds and over so although I was a bit concerned I thought by 13 that would be ok. As it happened, she started going to the club straight away and made some lovely friends and it all seemed good to begin with. Then I found out the club was all age groups including 6th form so 11 year olds mixing with 18 year olds.
Dd has gone from being a happy confident feminine little girl to a mentally unwell unhappy teenager who thinks she’s a boy and I’m trying to pick up the pieces. Thankfully the teacher who ran LGBTWTF club left and there isn’t a club anymore.
My daughter’s friend told me he’d complained about this teacher as he felt she was indoctrinating children and I’m inclined to agree.
I do think LGBT kids can feel left out and a club or space just for them to feel comfortable can be a good thing but they’re too young at 11 to be in a group with much older people where the focus is on who you’re sexually attracted to and that if you don’t conform to stereotypes there might be something wrong with your body and you’re maybe trans.

Exactly why don't schools just run clubs for nerdy lonely kids to hang out regardless of their sexuality?

If lots of gay kids attend they'll naturally form a peer group.

Your sexulaity should be irrelevant in school.
You shouldn't be bullied for it.
You don't need a special club for it.

Out school does have a club for "nerdy lonely kids" and it's on 5 days a week. Pride Club was self organised by students who have experienced biphobia and homophobia and is on 1 day a week. Incidentally, it's also open to all and is about pride (small p) in who you are as much as it is about alternative identities. And we do have students who can't acknowledge these identities within their own homes. It is an important space for them.

I appreciate the comment. Did you see the guardian article I linked to and what I said about the activist teacher setting this up?

Yes I have seen the guardian article you linked to.

The guardian article states that a legal opinion has been given that a toolkit used by schools in the Brighton area might be illegal under the equalities act.

No such case has been brought and so at the moment it isn't clear whether it breaks the law or not.

I'm not sure how the toolkit relates to a school having a club for lgbt and straight allies. These clubs are common across many schools not just in the Brighton and hove area.

Declaration of interest - I am gender critical but I think getting rid of spaces in secondary schools which are welcoming to lesbian and gay students is going way too far and throwing the lgb out with the t.

I have worked in education for twenty years, mostly as a teacher but also as an adviser.

I think it’s more about finding your tribe - very important for minority teenagers. Isolation and not seeing yourself mirrored leads nowhere good for teenagers who know they are different. Kids know they are gay when they are 2 or 3 by the way they just need to connect with same it’s not about sex

@Octavia64 - politely a case being brought or not does not make the toolkit legal. Not one legal professional has been willing to go against the Monaghan advice publically - because it’s very clear cut.

the school I am talking about uses the trans toolkit in all of its teaching. It is as deep as it gets in Brighton. And that’s very very deep already.

I also know for a cast iron fact that Queer Club was set up by an activist non binary teacher.

this is not about the existence of the club. This is about the safeguarding,social contagion and just plain poor teaching that I am more and more certain is going on.

If your tribe is your sexuality people will find you very dull when you grow up. It’s supposed to be as important as what car you drive.

minorities are vulnerable- I’d just focus on the what the kids feel to do if they’re getting something out of it

That’s terrible advice. Left to themselves Kids do quite the most awful and dark things. That’s why we have schools. And adults.

if you remember, queer identifying now outweighs gay, so gays are a minority in this club apparently.

It's hard to tell without context of what clubs exist for students at the school on an equal basis to the "Queer Club". If this club takes up all of, or a disproportionate majority of, the space, funding, energy, and attention for pupils who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans, asexual, questioning, and allies, it's of course not OK and is exclusionary. If it exists alongside equal provisions for those demographics, it's probably fine. I too balk at the institutionalisation of historically discriminatory and violent and hateful language - it's like having a Cunt Club for women students or a N- club for black students - but realising that reclaiming and backlash and ambiguity also exist, and if people can choose to join this club versus another that stands up for same sex attraction and/or addresses issues of gender dysphoria, then it may well do some good and serve a need. If your child wants to join this club, of course it's reasonable to ask the school for more information.

I don’t know what the club at OP’s daughter’s school is like, but I want to challenge the idea that this kind of club has to be “about sex.”

In American Gay-Straight Alliances in the 2000s (when I was in high school), the focus was less on the orientation of individual members and more about gay rights and history. They did things like make posters about famous gay people in history, or host assemblies about why it wasn’t okay to use “gay” as an insult. Or watch (age-appropriate) movies with gay characters, or pass out ribbons for World AIDS Day, or protest against laws in other countries that made homosexuality a capital offense. They usually got a lot of oversight from the school administrations because they were so controversial, and a lot of schools required a signed permission slip from a parent before students could join.

What they actually do in these clubs is create 'pride ally' badges, make a few 'inclusive' signs / posters to put up around school, maybe plan Pride week events and just chat, so that they don't feel alone. Maybe just be grateful that these children have somewhere to go to feel less alone and supported and maybe stop over-analysing it and looking for issues where there aren't any...they're children at the end of the day, and are supported by professionals.

They aren’t being ‘supported by professionals’ - they are teachers not therapists or councillors running these clubs.

Kids should be going to sports and hobby clubs, learning how to mix with all sorts of kids and focus on ‘fun stuff’ rather than the constant rainbows - and you can’t tell me the culture of rainbowifying everything isn’t real.

The kids who are ‘alone’ are the shy kids, kids with family problems, kids who are bullied, kids with autism, kids who ‘don’t fit in’.

Schools (and teachers!) shouldn’t be discussing sexuality with their pupils (beyond the whole ‘consent, safety, legality’). And what ages - I started high school at 10 - so potentially a club of 10-18 year olds meeting on the basis of sexuality?

It sounds like you’re unhappy with lots of things at this school OP. Do you have alternatives? Other schools/home education?

Clearly you have not read this entire thread, looked at the news articles or indeed know about the trans toolkit and the activist teacher who set this club up.

No none. The entirety of Brighton is badly captured. Like the deepest.

tbh I think this may be the least of your problems if your kid is starting secondary. Have you asked whether they have any qualified maths teachers, and what percentage of classes are covered by a non-specialist cover teacher? That's what I'd be asking, way before thinking about any of this stuff.

This is similar to my comment, which you jumped on me for. Octavia is clearly an experienced education professional, as am I. Having seen these clubs in action on many occasions, that's exactly what they are - a safe, inclusive space mostly doing arts and crafts, with several ally friends who go along to support. They're generally a good thing for schools to offer, however, I appreciate that the particular one you're describing, which is apparently being run by an activist might be over-stepping the line. Have a look at the school's Complaints Policy and follow it to the letter. Should be on their website and / or write to the Head and / or Governors.