New secondary school has a "Queer Club", would you potentially be concerned about this and what questions or steps would you take?

[Valdor]

Hello everyone,

Leafing through the new school materials I have in preparation for my child to attend in September, I was looking for information on the basketball club (which, to my disappointment, is only a 20-minute session once a week). However, I also found information about a “Queer Club,” which meets for 35 minutes weekly. There were no further details provided about this club, though I have asked the school for some.

Now, I, as I’m sure some of you, have concerns about the way queer and trans ideology has been taught in schools over the past 5-8 years. This includes the celebration, self-diagnosis, transitioning, and medicalisation aspects.

At the same time, I want to clarify that I am completely supportive of same-sex attracted, non-stereotypical children and am entirely opposed to rigid gender norms.

What concerns, if any, would you have about this club? What questions would you be asking the school to ensure it is safe and fit for purpose?

I’m looking for some guidance on how to approach this with the school and to make sure our children are in a supportive and safe environment.

Thank you for your insights!

I have grown up children, and now a granddaughter. I was also a teacher, and my daughter currently teaches. I'm very well acquanted with teenagers. That's how I know what is going on in some schools and in some LGBTQ lunchtime clubs. And you?

'Trans' is just the label/the framing device we give to people who, for whatever reason, feel they need, or want, to present as the opposite sex. It is a fairly recently constructed identity in the grand scheme of things. Just 15/20 years ago similar kids would be calling themselves goths or emos, or exploring their sexual orientation before coming out as gay or lesbian.

I understand some parents did complain, and that teacher is no longer at the school. However, there are activist teachers in other schools. It may not be a school's official policy - or practised throughout a school - but all it takes is one teacher teaching contested theories as fact. The ironic thing, though, is that it is often gay or lesbian teachers doing this.

It's fantastic that the school runs such a club. Assuming it's genuinely for gay and lesbian pupils, which the majority of them are, it sends a message to the minority of same-sex attracted students that it is perfectly normal and that the school supports them. This has a big impact in making pupils realise that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. It also sends a clear message to parents who are opposed to gay people for religious or other idiotic reasons that their views aren't supported by the school.

You are clearly talking about your own school club. The point is that it really does depend on who is running the club and whether they have an agenda to promote gender identity theory as fact. Some do. Naming it 'Queer' rather than LGB, is itself already buying into the wider trans narrative to which many young people are susceptible.

When I was a kid bullying at my school was dealt with in lots of effective ways. The kids who were different tended to hang out in various safe spaces at lunchtime with adult supervision .. art groups, music, sports, computer club, the library, the goth corner. None of us were discussing sexuality though some of the kids I went to school with were gay or lesbian We all grew up well rounded adults without being exposed to identities focused on sexuality Kids today seem to be encouraged to have identities or social media followers not personalities and hobbies

it was also assumed as a 70s kid that you would have a couple of hobbies not just one and I can remember books about choosing your hobby wthether that be sport music pets collecting things or crafts We all seemed to grow up ok ...,

I wish I could agree. The problem is as someone else said, “queer״ can mean something a bit different, and we have the social contagion element of unhappy and neurodiverse children struggling with adolescence, gathering around the ‘queer’ identity label and becoming swept up in a way of thinking that encourages them to separate their sense of themselves from their healthy and normal bodies. There are such genuine dangers here that I feel LGB kids are safer if kept away from these so called queer spaces.

Kids can be lonely and isolated at school through being “different” for lots of reasons.

If all that actually happens at the club is jigsaws, board games, Lego and crafts, why not make it a club for those things? Why call it “Queer club”?

This could become a safe space for all kids who are a bit different, or quiet, or socially awkward or neuro-divergant and would benefit them all without them having to specifically identify as gay, queer, or any micro-gender-identity label in order to join.

Being “queer” in a school context currently seems to mean “I am a bit different” in a very wide-ranging way, and perhaps we should find a way to celebrate or validate those who feel different without making it all about a huge focus on gender identity as the “explanation” for why students feel different.

Navel gazing and ruminating about gender identity is not good for teenagers. Better let them enjoy the company of others in a social situation where the focus is on doing something, games, crafts etc, and not making a “queer” label to be the entry requirement.

Clubs based on activity rather than identity might be better.

(However, being gay brings its own specific challenges in terms of negotiating the sexual awakening and dating issues of the teenage years, and a club/space for these kids to talk about these issues with an appropriate staff lead might be useful (although mixed boys and girls might not work well). But, being very aware of the danger of well-meaning teachers trying to act as therapists.)

You think that sex/ sexual orientation and secondary school should be mutually exclusive?

Really?

Do you understand that sex Ed is why there are far fewer teen pregnancies? Do you realise that teenage hormones run wild? Do you think only straight teens should feel accepted in the World?

Everyone, maybe I should have been more clear, I’m in Brighton and this is what’s happening in our town - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/13/schools-in-england-and-wales-using-gender-toolkit-risk-being-sued-by-parents - it’s not some made up worry.

I want to be clear I’m exceptionally supportive of same sex relationships of any type. I’m not supportive of conversion therapy for gay kids and that scares me.

I would genuinely love this to be true and the motivation behind the club. I suspect that’s what the teachers who run it would say, but I have discovered in the last few hours it was indeed set up by an activist teacher, one who hid social transitioning and encouraged medicalisation of a child.

this is as terrifying as you might expect. My son is autistic and is scared about making new friends and fitting in at this school. I would not want him anywhere near this teacher.

It is terrifying OP. These clubs are motivated by ideology and ego - not the needs of children. If a school has a problem with homophobia / homophobic bullying they should sort it. Data, audits, pupil voice and plans that identify and target the probems and find solutions that then become embedded in the curriculum, pastoral care, leadership and management.

There are lots of children who can find schools a hostile experience for reasons of race, religion, disability, SEN, mental health and more. Hiving children off into rooms with special adults isn't the solution - that's laziness.

It's hard work that involves the whole school community in changing attitudes and embedding genuine anti discriminatory attitudes into the school.

Sorry for the "education lecture" - it's just exasperating to see the real work of building genuinely safe inclusive schools where all children feel safe and valued being ignored in favour of ideological flag waving initiatives that are potentially dangerous for children.

I've managed to find the name of the teacher who runs the club and have their email address. I was going to do two emails, the first open and questioning and the second following up on the safeguarding issues and political issues that may come up - does anyone have anything I should add to these two piles?

First Set: Light, Open-Ended Questions

1.	<strong>General Purpose</strong>: “Can you tell me more about the general purpose and goals of the Queer Club?”
2.	<strong>Activities</strong>: “What kind of activities do the students typically engage in during the Queer Club meetings?”
3.	<strong>Participation</strong>: “How do students usually get involved in the club? Is it open to everyone, or are there specific criteria for joining?”
4.	<strong>Supportive Environment</strong>: “How does the club provide support for students who may feel lonely or bullied?”
5.	<strong>Supervision</strong>: “Who oversees the club meetings, and what is their role during these sessions?”
6.	<strong>Inclusivity</strong>: “How does the club ensure that it is inclusive and welcoming to all students, regardless of their backgrounds?”
7.	<strong>Feedback</strong>: “Do you have any feedback or testimonials from students who have participated in the club?”

Second Set: More Specific, Critical Questions

1.	<strong>Transgender Ideology</strong>: “Does the Queer Club present and discuss multiple perspectives on transgender ideology, or is there a particular viewpoint that is emphasized?”
2.	<strong>Safeguarding</strong>: “What measures are in place to ensure that discussions in the club are age-appropriate and adhere to safeguarding guidelines?”
3.	<strong>Encouragement and Identity</strong>: “How does the club ensure that gay and lesbian students are supported in their sexual orientation without feeling pressured to identify as transgender?”
4.	<strong>External Influences</strong>: “Are there any external organizations or resources involved with the club, and if so, which ones?”
5.	<strong>Curriculum and Materials</strong>: “What educational materials or resources are used during the club meetings? Are these materials reviewed and approved by the school administration?”
6.	<strong>Monitoring and Evaluation</strong>: “How does the school monitor the club’s activities to ensure they align with the school’s policies on inclusivity and respect for all students?”
7.	<strong>Feedback Mechanism</strong>: “Is there a way for parents to provide feedback or raise concerns about the club’s activities and how they are managed?” 

8 Monaghan Advice "How does the club accommodate the Monaghan advice regarding the legality of the trans toolkit?"
9 School Guidance - "How does the club fit in with the updated school guidance ons transgender children / Keeping Children Safe in Schools guidance. "
10 - Would LGB Alliance materials be provided and signposted?

And I thought I might put in a hypothetical question. "What would a teacher at Queer Club do if a child came to them stating they were gender dysphoric, would they inform the child about hormones, breast binding, surgery etc or would they take a questioning, puberty is just hard approach?"

Basically all about equality and safeguarding

Wow, brilliant questions. I’’d also copy in the school leadership, just so they know that there are serious safeguarding questions to be asked (and that you are asking them), so that the person who runs the club isn’t able to minimise or misrepresent your questions and interest. Good luck; well done.

I'd go with the second set of questions @Valdor .

You are making a lot of assumptions, here. Unless you know the specific group/school OP is referring to?

It may be a positive, helpful and supportive group that is carefully supervised and considered.

It may be held in the class of a teacher with nefarious interests. We don't have enough information to know, and it's fairly obvious that any group set up on the basis of children's sexuality is going to require careful thought.

Safeguarding children means we don't dismiss concerns as 'criticism', we listen, ask questions, test for weak spots, reflect, and improve.

And 'boys saying they will make a girl stop being a lesbian' is exactly what the extreme trans right movement want to do. The lesbians who feel pressured to have sex and relationships with trans women - BBC News

Which is just one reason why gender identity ideology is a really bad idea and should be no where near children, especially those growing up to be gay or lesbian.

Personally OP I'd be sending the questions to the Head. It will make them ask questions that they may not have thought of, especially about safeguarding, age appropriate issues in a mixed age group and accountability. I wouldn't get involved in challenging the individual leading this - if they're a trans activist they might relish a fight with a parent they can label transphobic.
This is a school club and therefore senior leaders are responsible for every aspect of it. If something did go wrong, it's down to them..

Excellent advice, as ever.

I would be very wary of a school which has such a thing.

It’s highly ideological in my opinion.

I have my reservations about church schools but I’m glad that the school my DC went to had no such club.

I have had a reply from the organising teacher, which was very prompt and polite.

I'd really appreciate peoples thoughts on the below, especially with a view on the concerns everyone has already shared. I believe now I have their ear I can ask some more challenging questions, for example safe guarding has not been mentioned at all.

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1 The purpose of the club first and foremost is to be a safe space for LGBTQ+ students and allies. All students are welcome as long as they are allies but the safety of LGBTQ+ students is paramount

2 We do a range of activities at the club from current affairs and issues discussions, arts and crafts, student presentations (they have really rolled with the presentations this year on a range of topics and students love it!), watching short films, as well as regular student voice activities which can be fed back to the senior leadership team. It's also a social space so it's about finding the right balance of allowing social time during their lunch and also having activities planned!

3 Students can just turn up on xxxx lunchtimes. No formal applications are required

4 Queer Club is a space for students to feel safe but also to able to meet others and to make friends. It is a great space for students who might be feeling lonely and myself and XXXX who run the group do have a pastoral role within the club to support students with their emotional well-being in situations such as feeling lonely. This applies to issues of bullying too, and students are always encouraged to speak to the staff supporting the club if they have experienced any issues like bullying. We also regularly discuss what should be done in cases of homophobic or transphobic bullying to reinforce that the systems are in place to deal with it

5 I run Queer Club along with XXXX. I teach Religious Studies, Psychology and PSHE and XXXX teaches Art and Photography. Our roles are to support students in both a pastoral role but also to facilitate activities

6 We state clearly whenever the club is reintroduced at the beginning of the year that is it welcoming of all students whether LGBTQ+ or not as long as they are allies. We have a nice mix of students in that respect so I believe the message has been understood by most students but we must always improve on this

7 We don't currently have any testimonials from students about the club but it is a great idea to think about for the future to further promote the importance of the space

My concern would be what films, discussions and presentations? A group of year 11s (15 / 16 years olds) or 6th formers discussing representation in films of maybe LGB characters would be very different to how Year 7 (11 /12 years olds) would discuss the same issues.

On the surface it sounds great and I'm sure they're all well intentioned. But IF they're dabbling in contested beliefs, age inappropriate issues, sex and sexuality then in a school there needs to be accountability. Schools aren't a value free zone where any adult with an interest can just set up a club for children to promote their special interests - especially if that involve children's emerging sexuality .

But as I said earlier, I'd be asking these questions of the leadership rather than the enthusiastic individual.

I do not think there should be a club of this sort at school, it is not an extra curricular club. I suspect there are no clubs which are labelled "hero."

Very good questions.
I think it is always good to start from a place of curiosity.
Well run clubs of this kind would be a real god send to some pupils -others who are comfortable with their sexuality/ identity and accepted by their circle of friends maybe wouldn’t be seen dead at such club- but for those who maybe are more isolated and vulnerable it may be really important for them but for this group it is even more important that we ask these questions.

The school has this where I work. I think it's lovely 😍

Isn't 'Queer' a bit problematic itself, especially for kids? Seems to me many people who call themselves 'queer' want to be seen as some kind of edgelords. Be good to see some more separation of the LGB from the rest of the alphabet soup.