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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Bravermans speech last night in Washington

123 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/07/2024 07:44

Oh Boy, has she blown this up.

Paul Brand from ITV and Iain Dale are not happy bunnies (both are gay).

Paul Brand ITV AT PaulBrandITV
Suella Braverman’s speech in Washington this evening contains a blistering attack on pro-LGBT Tories.

She says the pride (progress) flag has been flown on govt buildings as if marking “occupied territory”, accusing Tory colleagues of supporting a “horrible political campaign” which supports the “mutilation of children” and leaves her “physically repulsed”.

This is arguably some of the most inflammatory language used by an MP about any LGBT issue since the 1980s. People will scream at me from both sides of the argument, but most people agree that there is an important and sensitive discussion to be had about children and trans identity. The question is whether this language helps.

But by using this rhetoric, I suspect Suella Braverman hopes to draw attention to her views and claim this ground as her own in the coming leadership contest. Others in her party share the same view but don’t express it quite this strongly, so she marks herself out.

Iain Dale AT IainDale
What a disgusting speech. And she seriously thinks she has a chance of leading the Conservative Party. Not while I have a breath left in my body. Moderate Conservatives need to stand up and be counted. This will not stand.

The replies to Iain Dale are worth reading btw. They are largely telling him, he's wrong.

So what did Suella say? See transcript below.

I personally think because of who she is, it's probably unhelpful and only pushes the 'US conservative religious right' buttons. And she perhaps put it too strongly in language.

But, and I can't believe I'm saying this, isn't saying anything that I think is wrong either. Mainly cos she's right and isn't out of step with Cass.

The problem is, I think she will ultimately defect to Reform when she doesn't win the Tory Party leadership and I think the danger with her speech is that it will have the oppose effect to the one intended by forcing a polarisation merely because she's Evil Suella. But I suspect the idea this subject has gone away and can be quietly buried is firmly for the birds now. She's decided to make this a hill to die on by the looks of it.

As I say, that election result changed a lot. Farage will look to capitalise and Americanise this argument too. Expect more of similar.

Other parties now have a choice whether to play into the hands of the polarisation by pushing back (which politically I think is a bear trap which will back fire in time) or to acknowledge the issues that TWAW has created and the findings of the Cass Review.

Interesting times.

Suella Bravermans speech last night in Washington
Suella Bravermans speech last night in Washington
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junochorus · 10/07/2024 16:23

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2024 14:47

God I think the Tufton Street Conspiracy theory thing wasn't as wide spread as this.

Can you expand on "Tufton Street Conspiracy theory thing" a little please? I'm not really clear on what this is.

BonfireLady · 10/07/2024 16:40

Here's James Esses succinctly highlighting the important difference between the two flags:

https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1810776219757285671?t=lIrlCxYeB4hBW8eqV8Nr_Q&s=19

I have no doubt that Braverman has a motivation of self-promotion when she's engaging in this but equally, there is acceptance of culpability in her words.
She's talking specifically about the Progress flag. If she wasn't, her comments would make no sense. Being LGB (the original Pride flag) isn't political.

I don't think she's trying to whip up homophobia. I think she's trying to highlight a world medical scandal that the Tories allowed to happen in the UK.

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 16:58

BonfireLady · 10/07/2024 16:40

Here's James Esses succinctly highlighting the important difference between the two flags:

https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1810776219757285671?t=lIrlCxYeB4hBW8eqV8Nr_Q&s=19

I have no doubt that Braverman has a motivation of self-promotion when she's engaging in this but equally, there is acceptance of culpability in her words.
She's talking specifically about the Progress flag. If she wasn't, her comments would make no sense. Being LGB (the original Pride flag) isn't political.

I don't think she's trying to whip up homophobia. I think she's trying to highlight a world medical scandal that the Tories allowed to happen in the UK.

She's speaking with US Religious Conservatives, is she not? Well known for their tolerance of homosexuality right?

I know the difference between the two flags, what i'm stating is she has worded it in a way that those who are against ALL pride will feel she is talking for them also. She['s highlighting nothing that doesn't benefit her, she wants to get that part of the electrorate behind her. Much like she wants the islamaphobes and such.

Westfacing · 10/07/2024 17:16

Although she was re-elected I think Braverman, along with Truss, is political toast.

It's not likely but I don't mind if the Tory members make her their leader!

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 17:25

Westfacing · 10/07/2024 17:16

Although she was re-elected I think Braverman, along with Truss, is political toast.

It's not likely but I don't mind if the Tory members make her their leader!

the very far right she is stoking also believe that as a woman she should shut up and get in the kitchen so.

Sloejelly · 10/07/2024 17:33

has worded it in a way that those who are against ALL pride

She is talking to all Pride. All Pride is promoting the abuse, sterilisation and mutilation of children, especially gay children. Pride is homophobic.

ShillingForLabour · 10/07/2024 17:36

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 16:58

She's speaking with US Religious Conservatives, is she not? Well known for their tolerance of homosexuality right?

I know the difference between the two flags, what i'm stating is she has worded it in a way that those who are against ALL pride will feel she is talking for them also. She['s highlighting nothing that doesn't benefit her, she wants to get that part of the electrorate behind her. Much like she wants the islamaphobes and such.

I think she is speaking to the people who have had their genuine and serious concerns silenced, stereotyped and maligned as a mere expressions of ‘hate’/‘phobia’. That’s a lot of people. Maybe most people? The Silent/silenced majority. People share that meme of “Simba - see everything the light falls upon is transphobic” and it resonates. It’s a smart move.

User135644 · 10/07/2024 17:48

RedToothBrush · 09/07/2024 07:57

Yep. She's going to alienate and make people switch off rather than listen and engage with the language she's used.

It's frustrating.

Alienate people by telling the truth

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 18:09

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 16:18

She is well aware that referring to it as 'the flag; that many will assume she means all pride flags, not purely the progress one. She is well aware of the people she is trying to bring to her side, and believe me they are neither a fan of women or the LGB.

Exactly

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 18:10

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 16:58

She's speaking with US Religious Conservatives, is she not? Well known for their tolerance of homosexuality right?

I know the difference between the two flags, what i'm stating is she has worded it in a way that those who are against ALL pride will feel she is talking for them also. She['s highlighting nothing that doesn't benefit her, she wants to get that part of the electrorate behind her. Much like she wants the islamaphobes and such.

Yep. She specialises in being inflammatory in such a way she can claim she isn't

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 18:11

Sloejelly · 10/07/2024 17:33

has worded it in a way that those who are against ALL pride

She is talking to all Pride. All Pride is promoting the abuse, sterilisation and mutilation of children, especially gay children. Pride is homophobic.

😯

User135644 · 10/07/2024 18:15

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 18:10

Yep. She specialises in being inflammatory in such a way she can claim she isn't

She tells it like it is.

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 18:16

User135644 · 10/07/2024 18:15

She tells it like it is.

🤐

AgnesX · 10/07/2024 18:17

She's plain nasty. She can't peddle her opinions here so she's rattling cages in the US along with the odious Farage.

Sloejelly · 10/07/2024 20:17

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 18:16

🤐

If only.

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 21:09

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 18:11

😯

it’s actually scary how much people will explain away when it benefits them

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2024 21:21

User135644 · 10/07/2024 17:48

Alienate people by telling the truth

She's using language which tells the truth, but the manner in which she does this and how she invokes homophobic feeling by force teaming in reverse is an issue. It's the emotive stuff that's problematic. Not the point she makes.

And yes that alienates, especially because she also talking about getting rid of other rights etc etc.

OP posts:
Hepwo · 10/07/2024 21:31

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 17:25

the very far right she is stoking also believe that as a woman she should shut up and get in the kitchen so.

That's actually the Islamic left.

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 22:17

Wtaf is the "Islamic left"? That sounds suspiciously like forced teaming to me. I don't think socialism is a heavy feature of extreme Islamism 🙄

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 22:19

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2024 21:21

She's using language which tells the truth, but the manner in which she does this and how she invokes homophobic feeling by force teaming in reverse is an issue. It's the emotive stuff that's problematic. Not the point she makes.

And yes that alienates, especially because she also talking about getting rid of other rights etc etc.

The "point she makes" may not be an issue to you, but it certainly is to plenty of other people.
I wish politicians would stop attacking the civil service. Its unprofessional and undermines democracy imo.

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 22:20

Alwaystired94 · 10/07/2024 21:09

it’s actually scary how much people will explain away when it benefits them

Yes it is.
As long as you are saying TWANW, who cares what else you are up to?

Hatfullofwillow · 10/07/2024 23:57

junochorus · 10/07/2024 16:23

Can you expand on "Tufton Street Conspiracy theory thing" a little please? I'm not really clear on what this is.

Neither are they. It's not a theory, it's a fact.

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2024 08:10

CassieMaddox · 10/07/2024 22:19

The "point she makes" may not be an issue to you, but it certainly is to plenty of other people.
I wish politicians would stop attacking the civil service. Its unprofessional and undermines democracy imo.

I highly rated literacy and comprehension skills.

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