Neil Gaiman accused of sexual assault

[WandsOut]

www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sandman-writer-neil-gaiman-denies-142813982.html

Story still unfolding in the news

He's let it be known that he's no longer a member, but I'm not sure if that's true. People on the inside think he's at least a fellow traveller, and he's been known to donate to their causes.

Even if he did want to fully cut off links, that might be difficult for someone who literally grew up in Scientology. If he openly criticised them, he would be declared a Suppressive Person and he'd never have any contact with his sisters again. Defectors tell heartbreaking stories of being shunned by their family members.

And bearing in mind it's no longer trendy in the arts to be a Scientologist - you notice Tom Cruise doesn't talk about it in interviews any more - it might be an impossible position for NG where he has to vaguely handwave it away.

Seventeen Going Under...

@LaLoba Thanks for recommending Douglas is Cancelled. That was a hard watch at times but very good, I thought.

Also, of course...

Ooh I watched Douglas is Cancelled yesterday and thought it was absolutely brilliant. Really excellent, although yes, hard to watch in places. Karen Gillan was bloody amazing. Well, they all were. Although I thought Alex Kingston's character was quite a cliche.

As another Douglas is Cancelled recommendee I would keep going if you got through episode 1&2 and debated whether to continue. 3&4 much better. It was supposed to be a play and I can see it working much better as a play.
I thought Alex Kingston did an amazing job with the script she was given.

Yes I agree Alex Kingston was great. But her character was the weakest among them.

I love the fact that it was written as a play - the dialogue was incredible.

Ooh I thought that was Alex Kingston in the trailer! She will always be Dr Corday to me. I will have to watch it now.

The writer is often criticised as not being able to write women characters. I think the main female character was good. But I agree the wife was weak as a character.

I thought all the characters were really well drawn, but the wife was not so much. She did have a few moments in the first episode, when interacting with the daughter, where we saw a different side to her personality. I suppose she wasn't really written as an individual so much as the character of the press - she had to represent those qualities of ruthlessness and amorality. On the other hand, I thought those qualities were well represented by Toby, the producer, so maybe they could have done something more interesting with the wife. I suppose that it showed that culpability lay at more than one person's door. I won't say more, because spoilers!

Still - it's a really minor quibble with an excellent show. Would love to see more stuff like this.

I completely agree with this. I'm sure we've all met them, but one of my acquaintance comes to mind - he's so right on that it's painful to watch. And such an ally to women...but it wouldn't occur to him for one moment to put a woman's opinion ahead of his own when it comes to women's rights. Challenge him and he becomes a nasty little piece of work.

I caught him leering over a vulnerable woman (in the name of "being kind and helpful to someone in distress") one day when he thought no-one was watching - the look on his face when he realised he'd been clocked is not one that's left me. "Predatory" is the only word that truly describes it. I have quietly put the word out that he's not to be trusted but only quietly; I can't prove anything and I wouldn't want to give him the excuse to play the victim.

I've read this whole thread and I will listen to the podcast when I'm able to (not had the opportunity to do so yet).

Is there anywhere where I can read a summary of what exactly happened and when? I'm struggling a bit with figuring out the events although I have grasped the bit about the bath. I might go back to the start of this thread and try reading it through again.

Also, just for reference, I'm an autistic woman so I sometimes miss the more nuanced aspects of events. Without flaming me, can someone explain why Scarlet would have messaged NG to thank him for a wonderful night when she had in actual fact been sexually abused? Is it because she'd convinced herself it wasn't sexual assault? Or did she think she had to stay in his good books because she had nowhere else to live? Was there a reason she just didn't say nothing rather than thanking him?

I'm just trying to understand. I have no doubts whatsoever that this was coercive and abusive behaviour by NG. Absolutely vile. And I understand why she might have frozen when he got in the bath and why she felt unable to protest. It's just the follow-up texting I can't seem to wrap my head around.

I hesitated to post this as I don't want to seem to be doubting anything. Because I'm not - I don't think his behaviour was acceptable in any way. I'm just trying to understand the follow-up texts because I think the presence of this kind of "evidence" is at least part of the reason that NG is getting away with this. As a society we've been groomed into thinking that relationships which involve older, more powerful men and young, vulnerable women are fine, and there's only started to be a genuine pushback on this more recently. And when the thoroughly decent chap has "proof" that it was all consensual, I think it's still a step too far for most people to accept that the acts were coercive and abusive.

I have met and bedded too many of those in my younger and more naive days to my great cost.
I recently had a male physical therapist 'mansplaining' feminism to me. On closer inspection the really creepy bnw 'art' photo of his hands massaging down under a young womans towel on his social media confirmed my concerns. That and his complete lack of professional boundaries.

I can’t take credit, it was @SexyActsOfParodicSubversion recommended it first.

@spidersareshitheads I think the best thing is to listen to the podcast and see what you think.

In my personal opinion, Scarlett was very vulnerable and trying to take control over what had happened. NG acted like it was all normal and fine so she acted like it was all normal and fine. It was a long time before the realisation that she had been assaulted became clear to her. She was a virgin, she was so young, and NG was her boss and a famous writer. I don't think she trusted her own perceptions of the situation. She was heavily gaslighted by NG.

That's how I see it, anyway. The podcast gives a clear picture of the events and timeline.

can someone explain why Scarlet would have messaged NG to thank him for a wonderful night when she had in actual fact been sexually abused?

For the same reasons that I didn't tell many of my ex-BFs "no" when I didn't really want sex: to maintain some illusion of control in a situation I didn't feel I had much power in. If I didn't tell these guys "no", they couldn't ignore my "no" and so I wouldn't risk finding out that they were willing to rape. In Scarlett's case, if she tells herself she wanted it, she doesn't have to face up to a) having been raped b) by someone she looks up to.

Graham Linehan has written an absolutely blistering article about Neil Gaiman on X. Graham Linehan on X: "Rest In Infamy, You Haunted Castle" / X

This is how it ends:

I certainly believe the women in ‘Master’. During my Jessica Fletcher period (a period which continues) no-one except Gaiman ever mentioned my kids. I think he knew it would cause me distress, and the second time he said it was just a twisting of the knife. Many of my colleagues in the media joined in with the trashing of my reputation, but Gaiman went that extra mile. I believe this is because he is a sadist. I think he is a man who finds pleasure in the suffering of others, and a man who does not see women and girls as fully human.
This was my final letter to him.
Dear Neil
I notice you’re still pretending you can’t read the Tavistock story. If you ever try and lay that curse on my kids again I will certainly share our exchange. Your privileged beliefs are harming children so to paraphrase Will Smith, keep their names out of your fucking mouth.
Thank you for giving me one last chance to say that JK Rowling will be remembered as a hero and you as a traitor to the kids who loved your books.
Rest in infamy, you haunted castle.
All the best,
Graham.

What @MaidOfAle said. Being sexually assaulted is a shock to the system. If you process it as actively consensual or that you didn't actually say no, it can seem easier to deal with, at first. Especially when you know the fallout will be awful if you do acknowledge that someone, especially someone powerful, has assaulted you.

@taylorswift1989 @MaidOfAle @Ereshkigalangcleg - thanks so much for your insights, it makes more sense to me now. Really appreciate the thoughtful responses to what I appreciate was a clumsily worded question! I can see exactly what you’re saying. I knew I was missing something.

Also, your comments are real food for thought on a personal level for me too because I was “raped” by an ex-boyfriend in 2009. And I use inverted commas because I struggle to see it as rape even though I told him no, pushed him away etc (I was pregnant at the time and didn’t want to hurt my babies, and bizarrely, didn’t want to hurt him by being too forceful!). Even now, I feel like a fraud claiming that I was raped. Or even sexually assaulted.

My brother (who is lovely) has always told me I was raped but I’ve never really believed it because I’m big and strong but I didn’t fight hard, physically speaking.

So I think there might be something for me to reflect on here too in terms of what we tell ourselves, maybe as a protective measure….? Maybe this conversation is closer to home for me than I realised.

I’m definitely going to listen to the podcast - I just need to find a bit of time when I won’t be interrupted by DC! @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g - thank you for the Glinners link - going off to have a proper read of it now.

Sorry that happened to you, Spiders. I can relate, unfortunately. My own experience was that it took many, many years to process the rapes and sexual assault I experienced as that. I think it is a kind of self-protection that happens subconsciously. In my case, it took me a long time to feel safe enough in my body to begin to look at what was done to me.

It makes me wonder how truthful it is when he's consistently distanced himself from the Church of Scientology.

Was there a bit in the podcast that uncovered he is an investor in some product or other peddled by the church - vitamins or something? Somehow that strikes me as worse than the odd donation.

Julie Bindel has written a post about Neil Gaiman and whether Laurie Penny was one of the people to provide a character reference for him in the podcast:

https://juliebindel.substack.com/p/the-strange-case-of-neil-gaiman-and?triedRedirect=true

Also, your comments are real food for thought on a personal level for me too because I was “raped” by an ex-boyfriend in 2009. And I use inverted commas because I struggle to see it as rape even though I told him no, pushed him away etc (I was pregnant at the time and didn’t want to hurt my babies, and bizarrely, didn’t want to hurt him by being too forceful!). Even now, I feel like a fraud claiming that I was raped. Or even sexually assaulted.

I think a lot of women process rape and sexual assault like this

@SpidersAreShitheads When I was 17-20 I had in my mind that rape was this thing that a stranger in the shadows did to you. So when I was raped by a then-boyfriend, I didn't realise it was rape. I didn't like it, but I thought that was my problem and carried on as normal. When I was 21 I was sexually assaulted by someone I went out on a date with. I'd asked him back to my home. I didn't realise it was sexual assault. After all, we were on a date. As it was happening I remember thinking, This isn't right, but I doubted myself and texted him the next day thanking him for a nice time. I think this was the sort of thing Tori Amos was singing about in Precious Things, or at least that's what I took from it:

He said, 'You're really an ugly girl
but I like the way you play'
and I died
but I thanked him
can you believe that, sick
holding onto his picture
dressing up every day'.

Knowing there's something wrong but holding onto a few crumbs of affection, and the story you tell yourself about them, for the sake of feeling loved and wanted and fulfilling their expectations.

There's also the juxtaposition of Neil's two personas: 'Lovely Feminist Guy' and 'Predatory creep'. The two seemingly don't add up. It makes you doubt yourself. This is what happened with the boyfriend who raped me. He worked in a protective role with vulnerable people. I remember thinking that someone with a job like him couldn't be a rapist, I must have got it wrong. These men know how disorientating this is, they play on it.

There's also the juxtaposition of Neil's two personas: 'Lovely Feminist Guy' and 'Predatory creep'. The two seemingly don't add up. It makes you doubt yourself. This is what happened with the boyfriend who raped me. He worked in a protective role with vulnerable people. I remember thinking that someone with a job like him couldn't be a rapist, I must have got it wrong. These men know how disorientating this is, they play on it.

This, totally.