If you are gender critical what would you do if your child said they were trans?

[Titsywoo]

That is the situation we find ourselves in with our 17 year old autistic son. We are struggling to find the right thing to do. Both DH and I don't feel he is actually in the wrong body - he never showed one sign of that till 4 or 5 months ago.

What would you do?

Sorry if people don't feel this is the right board for this but I don't want to discuss my son specifically just how people who are GC would deal with the situation if their own child (or other family member/friend) was to start down this worrying path?

👏 👏 👏

I’m so sorry to hear about your DD’s difficulties. I hope you will be able to find a way to help her cope with those feelings as she is. But I don’t like seeing glib attitudes towards the severity of distress that some children are dealing with. Obviously there is a difference between taking the mick out of silly ideology which isn’t personal to the child. But if a child is genuinely distressed about their body and sex, and has been brave enough to share that with a parent, I can’t imagine a more unhelpful response than to laugh at or mock them.

@TicklishLemur Thank you. Me neither.

Name changes are the one thing Cass mentions having a positive effect on mood, and from the kids I work with I see that.
I would push back any use of the term "deadname", and suggest "papername" instead.
The precise name and the reason given for the name change is often revealing. I would push back on bridgeburning cross-sex names.
Lots of adolescents take a new name/ nickname as a way of building an identity for themselves. Sometimes there are practical or emotional reasons for the name change. eg there are six Olivers in the class or the name is too similar to a relative etc.
I'm seeing a lot of what might be empathetic transitioning, or it might be peer pressure, or outright bullying. Each case seems highly individual and how you approach the situation will be too.

Maybe, but he might respond the same way my DC responded to Ritchie Herron. It's new to us but some young people have already seen a lot online that dismisses detransitioners.

Trans includes so many different things, I'd try to unpick exactly what they mean by identifying as or feeling they are 'trans'...

Language has been mangled so much... especially for teens, I feel trans is now used to cover everything from I don't like my body or how puberty is changing my body and I can't control it, to I don't like societies expectations of me as a man/ woman and don't want to have to conform, I don't feel that I look or act or have the typical interests of a man /woman, I want to experiment with my hair / clothes, I want to dress the same as my other trans friends and feel included in this social group who promise they will always have my back and be there for me against a hostile outside world.... it's replaced goth /punk / ecowarrier as a social identifier and hopefully most people will come through into early adulthood unscathed!

I suspect very few teens with a trans
identity actually have the severe body/ gender dysphoria and belief that they have are or should be the opposite sex in the way we used to take trans to mean.

@SaltPorridge I’ve not come across the term ‘empathetic transitioning’. Could you explain a bit more about how you’ve seen it manifesting?

This is of particular interest bc DD has been very heavily influenced by an older, autistic, trans-identifying relative, with whom she’s extremely close. She seems to have adopted this person’s back story/rationale as her own but is understandably insulted at any suggestion that her feelings are copied from, or imprinted by, someone else. It’s a horrible tightrope I have to negotiate whenever we discuss that relationship.

(Sorry to hijack, OP, but rather than PM othee posters with questions, it feels like there’s a benefit to lots of us on this thread to hear from people with direct experience of working with trans teens 🙏)

I think previous experience of trauma and abuse is another key factor, and particularly sexual abuse in girls. Children from those kinds of backgrounds were massively overrepresented at the Tavistock clinic so I think it is more likely in children with severe mental health issues and psychological distress. But the overexposure to this condition has led to many children with struggles that are typical of adolescence believing they are transgender.

True, I suppose it depends on the level of 'capture'. Each young person is very different in their reasons behind announcing a trans identity, and how far down the gender rabbit hole they've gone. I like Alex (and Ritchie), although Alex is interesting as he's heterosexual and, as far as I can tell not AGP, so fits a lot of the autistic female profiles of trans identified young people (fear of puberty/sex, not fitting in etc.). Ritchie I think had a lot of internalised homophobia and suffered from OCD so came from a different angle, although I think he is also autistic.

But presumably you don't affirm this daft idea and do discuss feelings, for example how does she know what it feels like to be male. It is much more likely she is frightened of the horrible, pornified images of women out on the internet. Perhaps discuss these?
But then, I don't walk in your shoes. But I would do that.

Active listening is an art, and can be really difficult - not least because it often brings up one's own issues.

So the first thing to do is seek support for yourself. Plenty of support here, and there's a board for parents of 'LGBT' kids. There's also Bayswater. Seek trusted friends and spaces where you can offload. Acknowledge that this is hard going and be sure to make time for yourself and space to feel what you're feeling.

Then you will be in a better position to listen to your son.

Letting teen boys talk is often easier when you're doing something else. Walking is good, or driving. Sitting next to rather than facing helps. I'd suggest maybe a regular arrangement - maybe once a week? And letting him know that it's time for just you and him, what you'd call 'special time' for a younger child.

Also, and this one is a bastard - he'll probably want to talk at about midnight when you are knackered. Try and make a bit of time to listen.

'how to talk so kids will listen' is a good read.

Also: https://www.peacefulparenthappykids.com/read/parent-teen-relationship

And lastly I'd say listening sometimes involves listening to the subtext. Teenagers can ramble on about stuff without it really making a lot of sense, but usually there is a subtext that is what they are feeling, if that makes sense? Try to listen for this, and reflect it back to them to check you've understood (gently).
I'm also going with being more honest with them about my own feelings (not 'reacting emotionally' but communicating more clearly how I'm feeling). I think children respond well to genuine, straightforward honesty.

All the best, OP.

I've been in this situation. It came as a complete surprise, so I don't think it proves or disproves anything that you weren't suspicious. I still can't think of any "signs" I missed. We've talked about it and my DC has said it wasn't something I could have picked up on - always a very private and internal feeling for them.

There seem to be a lot of posters on this thread who haven't had our experience, offering some very hard-core advice. I would ignore all of that unless you want to humiliate and alienate your child, worsen their mental health and cause your relationship to break down.

Obviously, it's difficult. I think a key thing is not to make it about you, if possible. It may be a phase, but as this is a not uncommon experience for autistic teenagers, it may well not be. Your child is still there and they need your support, so, hard as it is, keep your anger/rage/bewilderment/grief/disbelief/other perfectly understandable emotions in check when you are talking to your DC. Find other parents in your position to express your feelings with, or consider counselling for yourself if you're really struggling.

At 17, young people are able to have medical treament without parental consent and in a year's time will be an adult. So I don't think it helps to treat them as much younger than they actually are, and try to make decisions for them - unless they have capacity issues of course. You can advise if they are considering any medical treatment and I would certainly support trying to get them to wait - but as I understand it, unless it's surgery, it is really down to them.

Trans people exist, and always have done. A lot of posters on here seem to be in denial about that, but it's true. And as has been pointed out, people on the spectrum are particularly over-represented in the trans community. We mostly accept gay people quite comfortably now, whereas thirty years ago many people would have been horrified by their child coming out as gay. This doesn't have to be so different. The main issue many of us GC types have with the trans community is the damage some of them are doing to women and girls' rights - not, hopefully, with trans-identifying people per se. Your DC is not doing any harm to women or girls, hopefully - so they can be completely separate in your mind from the TRA types we have problems with.

I was willing to use their prefered name and pronouns, even though it hurt and I do have issues with compelled pronoun use in other contexts. I think that makes a big difference to how accepted a potentially-trans teen will feel, so in my view making a big fuss about it is not likely to be constructive. It's only a name and it's easy enough to change back if this turns out to be a false alarm.

I also think that having a concept of gender is useful in this situation. I know many GC women hate the idea of gender, but again, isn't this at least partly because the word is used in such devious and slippery ways by TRAs? The reality is that your DC DOES have a concept of themselves that is at odds with their biological sex. That's what being trans is. And if you can use the word "gender" to refer to that concept it may be very hepful to communication.

In general I think it's best to listen a great deal more than you speak, and if you have to ask questions try to make them open ones, i.e. ones that can't be answered with "yes" or "no". Make it very obvious to your CD that you love them and want to support them. They'll be feeling very vulnerable.

For me, grief has been the biggest thing to deal with, once the shock wore off and acceptance set in. There's a huge adjustment in what life will probably be for this person versus what we might have hoped. I still find it hard sometimes to believe that my son is now my daughter. It is a kind of bereavement, and those are tough. Be kind to yourself as well as your DC. I wish you well.

When you’re dealing with an articulate teen, simply dismissing these notions as ‘daft’ isn’t constructive - same as I wouldn’t appreciate my passionately-held views being dismissed out-of-hand as nonsense.

The problem is you’re up against the machinery of a highly organised, single-agenda political movement that promotes this whole ideology ceaselessly to young people via social media propaganda, under the banner of inclusiveness and ‘being kind’ - which is highly effective, because when you feel vulnerable, anxious and uncomfortable in your own skin, who wouldn’t want to be part of an inclusive, kind and accepting community?

For a great many young people, self-IDing according to some non-specific ‘feeling’ has become an orthodoxy and any attempt to challenge it is met with accusations of bigotry and transphobia; their views, however misguided, are passionately felt and affirmed in their media consumption, by their peers and even by their schools - so the task you’re faced with is effectively the same as having to deprogramme a cult member before you can even start to have a logical discussion.

But yes, I agree that feelings are usually the way into a constructive conversation, and my sense is that in my DD’s case (as with probably OP’s son and a great many others), it has less to do with genuinely feeling like she is the opposite sex and more to do with not wanting to be the sex she is - the reasons for which are many-tentacled, but in part because she sees boys as having simpler, more straightforward and less sexually pressured lives, friendships and relationships.

@EnjoythemoneyJane by "empathetic transitioning" I mean where a pair or a group appear to be supporting each other as friends and one seems to be most interested in trans whereas the others seem to be joining in. The pairs seem to wear similar clothes and hairstyles. The (two) groups that I know are more varied but united by transness.
This has been called Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria and I don't know if the mechanism is thought to be empathy. That's my observation based on working with hundreds of teenagers (mostly not trans).
For the OP, i don't know if this happens among boys. I see fewer of them and hardly any trans.

@SaltPorridge Thank you, that’s really interesting. If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of age groups are you seeing this in? I’ll definitely do a bit more reading around what you’ve described.

The ages are 13 to 18. I doubt there's much written about it yet. Neither the kids nor anyone around them are able to think clearly about what is going on.

No need to apologise - I'm finding this all very interesting and informative. I watched a podcast on Youtube today with Dr Hakeem and it made me feel a lot better about my own thoughts and opinions on the matter.

All the messages on here show how differently the whole topic of gender dysphoria/fluidity etc affects us all and our kids.

As much as I appreciate the more lighthearted laugh at them/make light of it comments I will certainly not be heading down that road considering how distressed and vunerable my son is right now.

Thank you everyone for your replies - it is really helpful (clearly not just for me!)

I am in this situation with a 12 year old who suddenly "isn't a girl" and is identifying as non binary. She can't explain why she isn't a girl though but says it's nothing to do with her body. She is gay and suspected ASD so ticks all the boxes for being vulnerable to this ideology. I feel this is a stepping stone to saying she wants to be a boy, change her name etc. I've been aware of all this since the days of r/gendercritical (rip 😞) and on here over the years under so different names, so this has been a shock that it's now happening in my family. She says she can't believe she ever had "transphobic beliefs" like men can't become women. Any attempt at discussion results in tears, I'm at my wits end. I'm walking on eggshells to try and avoid using "she/her" pronouns in front of her, but I also can't say they/them due to knowing this person as a female for 12 years and it's near impossible for that to come naturally despite continual lectures about how I just have to practice .

Children, especially those under 14/13, really crave structure and a parent/s who is confident in what they know to be true. I have 2 DDs (mid teens and young adult) and realized that firm, but loving boundaries/expectations/rules did far better for them than when I was hesitant or walking on eggshells with them. Again, I don't have a SEN child so this may not exactly apply, but as mothers we are supposed to be in charge and always setting clear expectations of what is and what is not acceptable in our family. Even if a child initially balks or calls us names like bigot, transphobe, etc., it is really far better to deal with conflict than to have a vulnerable, confused kid (cause c'mon, they are awfully confused if they think men can become women) who doesn't know who to trust because her mother can't trust her own sense of what is right and true. That kind of peace is nothing but a kind of purgatory.

The research supports this. Negligent and lackadaisical parenting is as bad as authoritarian parenting. Authoritative (middle ground w/ love but rules) helps children thrive. Standing up to our children who claim we're bigots and confidently saying we are not is something I'd recommend. Ir worked in our family. Not just w/ DDs, but Dsis did this w/ DN who tried the non-binary thing. She firmly said I love you but not in our house. Gender identity goes against our feminist, liberal and family values of respecting ourselves. Essentially, she told DN she wasn't in charge.

I get this won't work for those w/ kids over 18, but we shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around our own children. This is such an insidious belief system. It's horrible what it's doing to families. All in thrall to a self-harm gender god. Fuck that shit and the TRAs it walked in on.

Thanks. I know, it's a ridiculous situation and even my own husband and other family members and friends tell me I'm letting her walk all over me. I just don't want to push her away which I think will only reinforce her ideas and entrench her "us vs them" mentality. You say your DN "tried the non binary thing", how long did it last?

I’d screen for any underlying potential biological conditions that might have remained unknown first.

I’m curious about if in these situations, if possible to have reasonable discussions with a 12 year old at all? Did she explain what she think it means to be a girl vs non-binary?

The sad thing is that you can't change sex, so this whole trans thing is built on lies. It's just the latest fad. Why not address the real issue, the underlying root cause.

Like what?

About 2 years. She also claimed briefly to be a lesbian (and my Dsis said that was fine) but, funnily, my own DD1 who is bisexual and my DD2 who is straight both told me their cousin really had no idea about her sexuality because she'd never dated anyone or come close to any kind of sexual anything, not even a single attraction (I mean, she was only 13, it's NORMAL to not feel anything for anyone at that age!). It was clear her peer group was really, really big into labeling everything and you had to pick a label and Goddess forbid it was straight or cis as that was social suicide. DN begged my Dsis for therapy because she claimed she didn't know how to act in social situations, and Dsis refused because she was convinced, rightly, this was just a social contagion . Dsis said repeatedly to her that her discomfort socially was normal because early teenage years are supposed to be awkward and confusing. (no SEN for DN, so that made things easier). Now that DN is creeping toward 17, she's settled down and no longer thinking she might be some gender special. But, her friend group is still a tad steeped in it. It helps that the entire family isn't on board AND that we're also pretty much all on the left. So, we're throwing her curveballs with all our feminism and rock n' roll.

Pretty much tho, my Dsis and DBiL said hell no to pronouns or name changes and any body modifications or binders would mean selling the house and moving to the woods. They were pretty clear about that from the start.

Also, DN admires and looks up to my DD1 who, thankfully, peaked just at the time DN thought she might be N/B...which helped a LOT because DD1 was talking nonstop about how absurd it was. DD2 also helps her cousin because she's just a practical type who doesn't engage.