Non binary children

[ArabellaScott]

I realised I haven't actually heard of such a thing as a non binary child before. I'm talking specifically about pre pubertal children.

How does a 'non binary' child present? What does it involve?

How is a 'non binary' child different from a 'trans' child?

To me, the impetus for a child to be called 'non binary' is completely from the parent and there are a few I believe who have raised children as 'non binary', I saw a mum doing this on a TV show a few years ago.

The theory is that the child doesn't get bogged down or limited by gender expectations - which is a good thing - but doing it in a way that tells them they are neither sex is barking mad of course and an experiment you are running on your child.

Not to mention it actually reinforces stereotypes.

Yes, it’s strange. The argument against ROGD is that it’s likely the girl was actually trans identifying but didn’t have the words/confidence/understanding of it at a young age. So does that apply to non-binary? Has a non-binary teenager always been non- binary, even at primary school age, but didn’t have the words/confidence/understanding of it to declare it?

My thoughts were prompted by David Tennant's vituperative attack on Kemi Badenoch for her work on women's rights, based on the fact he has a 'non binary' child, who is as I understand it between 9 and 11.

It seems to me to be pathologising a perfectly normal aversion to sex stereotypes.

One inference to be made is that parents of children that age claiming to be non-binary must themselves buy into sex stereotypes. If they didn’t they’d just help educate their child that it’s normal to have an aversion to sex stereotypes. But they must think that their child needs an explanation to be so averse to sex stereotypes, and that explanation must be non- binary.

Otherwise why don’t they just tell their child they’re just like millions of other children around the world? Or is it because they put stock and value into a non-binary label?🤔

There are children who are raised as gender neutral . That means they don't have artificial characteristics attributed to them due to stereotypes of either gender. They are either male or female but it isn't people's business which.

Non - binary is more like a thought process above all else.

Tbh I can't imagine small children referring to themselves as either . They are just themselves.

It's not possible to raise a child as "gender neutral". Societal influence is all around from pre-birth onwards, from when the sex of the child is known onwards. Even parents who attempt to be "gender neutral", or avoid sex-based stereotyping, cannot fully shake off their own conditioning.

Many parents, often feminists ones, will do their very best to reject sex-based stereotypes without denying the reality of the child's sex, nor the sexist society we all live in. But it's not as trendy or modern to just get on with rejecting sexism, rather than label it and pronounce publicly about it.

When did it become necessary to deny your child's sex, to avoid sexist stereotyping? My paternal grandparents were born during the reign of Queen Victoria. They raised two children, one girl, one boy, both were encouraged to be good human beings and to follow their interests. My father was an engineer to his soul, he was the little boy who dismantled his toys to see how they worked, he could also embroider, crochet and knit. His sister was equally non "gender" conforming and both lived long, happy family lives. Neither were "none binary"

what will come next? non-binary dogs and cats? non-binary children are a product of their parents ideas! its like vegans and vegetarians... childen brough up to be this, are not given a choice, they are forced into it and then know no better.

its time we allowed our children to be just that.. no lables, nothing forced on them, just let them be what they want to be

Mairzydotes · Today 12:33
There are children who are raised as gender neutral .

No. Our 29 year old daughter’s friend was brought up by a very traditional farming family with very specific roles expected of the children, which they all fell into until leaving home. At the same age, 29, she has come out as non-binary and is living with a non-binary partner.

I've posted before about more than one of my children being quite gender non-conforming in their interests, dress sense and play at different while they were small. As a feminist raising children at that time (80s to 2000s), a non-sexist, child-centred approach to parenting children and accepting differences in personality and behaviour - without it having any impact on actual sex - seemed quite instinctive. I have tried to reflect and wonder whether I would do things differently if I were parenting small children now. Would I look for an explanation that resonated with current popular culture? Would I rush to label my child and impose on them an alternative set of stereotypes and expectations , or suggest to them that they were a different sex, or both or neither? I know that the ideology and the sense of value and belonging it gives some parents and children seems to be intoxicating; but I think the answer is still "No, I wouldn't". I would be very aware of the meaning others, including teachers and schools, would attribute to children not conforming to gendered stereotypes though.

Non binary is a style choice. We used to call it androgenous. Children don't id as NB because no one is talking about it to them. The moment a boy chooses to wear a tutu parents of a certain type will coo 'trans!' so they hear about that. This proves how the whole thing is made up.

thats totally different... this friend made a decision to be what they are.

there are children out there, born and the parents refuse to identify their gendar.. from birth! thats not a choice thats brainwashing

I didn’t understand being non binary until recently. I thought it was a lot of rubbish if I am honest.
I think unless you have spent a lot of time with someone who is and they have explained how it feels it’s not something you can easily grasp.
The person I know is too young to refer to themselves in terms of pronouns but everything about them is ambiguous, it’s not obvious if they are girl or boy. Androgynous as the poster above said.
I guess when puberty hits this might all change.
They are too young for it to be the trend.

This

@Apollo365 why does that child's behaviour need a label or anything other than acceptance that this is their personality, as unique and individual as the next child?

Tbh, if "non-binary" defies clear definition then it's a nonsense term with no inherent meaning.

At nine, all children are 'androgynous', though. You can only really tell small kids apart by their hair/clothing.

A non binary child is a kid, maybe less gender-conforming than average, who the parents (or possibly some interfering idiot) have decided to label.

Young people raised in very conservative household later coming out as trans/non-binary seems relatively common and quite explicable. If you are taught that girl=dresses, babies, housework and you don't feel any infinity for those things then you may feel that you are not therefore a girl.

It's also probably already been said, but there is a difference between raising children as 'gender neutral', i.e, without assuming their sex predicts anything more than their eventual reproductive capacity, and labelling your child non-binary.

At nine, all children are 'androgynous', though. You can only really tell small kids apart by their hair/clothing.

That's not necessarily true - I don't think anyone would ever have mistaken my DD for a boy or labelled her as 'nonbinary'. Not even when she was playing with knex rather than Barbies, or choosing to go to a 'pirates and princesses' party as a pirate princess etc.

I don't agree.

A couple of years ago I was watching a hockey fixture for 8/9 year old girls at a private school and there was an attractive looking, slightly build child with long blonde hair on the opposing team. I immediately clocked that they were a biological boy from the way they moved and all the children could see it to.

For the record I don't think it mattered at that age that there was a boy on the other team.

I wonder what a non binary child of the 70s/80s looked like. I've neve seem much variation on childhood photos, whether you were male or female, of the following:

-pudding bowl haircut, done (badly) by your mum
-dungarees (handed down from older brother/sister, or to be handed down after you)
-woolly jumper knitted by your Nan
-t-bar buckle up shoes
-playing Lego on an orange/brown hairy carpet

An Irish politician, Paul Murphy, is raising his kid as non-binary. From what he's said he seems to believe that whether a child is a boy or a girl describes their likes and interests, rather than whether they're male or female.

When a lot of people ask is it a boy or a girl, really, they mean, is it male or female?”

So I would say that a non-binary child is a child who has a caregiver who believes this.

The couple will be using the pronoun ‘they’ for Juniper and want the child to “discover their own gender identity”....

"we don’t want to limit the kind of future they will foresee for themselves.
^^
“The role that they will perceive for themselves, the type of play that they will perceive for themselves by saying ‘you’re a boy or you’re a girl’. Just let them decide for themselves.

^“You want to dress in pink? Fire ahead. You want to dress in blue? Fire ahead. You want to play football? Brilliant. You want to go dancing? Amazing... it’s just not to limit. m.independent.ie/irish-news/td-paul-murphy-on-raising-new-baby-gender-neutral-were-describing-juniper-as-a-baby-but-it-is-male/42385502.html^

But you can encourage a child to dress and act how they wish without enforcing stereotypes without pretending this has any effect on sex.

I prefer the 'boys can be kind/ballet dancers/nurses' and 'girls can be strong/footballers/doctors' messages than the 'if you don't fit stereotypes you must be a new category of human'.

Of course. It's very muddled and it's intriguing the way they're reinforcing stereotypes while thinking they're dismantling them.

😂😂 Oh yes!

I was out playing soldiers, cowboys and Indians, building dens, football, biking...all in an 70s tracksuit or jeans and character t shirt...boys and girls doing the same games.