JKR calls Labour's Bluff - Offering Meeting leadership only on her terms

[fromorbit]

JKR is playing at a different level. After Starmer and Reeves offered to meet with her she gave them her conditions.

I'll be happy to meet after NoXYinXXprisons, Lesbian Labour, Womens Rights Network, WomansPlaceUK and Alliance LGB have been given in person meetings with the Labour leadership. I'd also like to know whether Angela Rayner still considers the last two organisations hate groups.

They are trapped either they now have to meet with gay and women's groups and listen to them something they are desperate not to do. It is not impossible then that Reeves at least can be made to see some sense. Even talking with these groups and JKR will also make TRAs go ballistic and many will leave the party. Chances are that Labour will promise a bunch of stuff to JKR which If Labour still follow gender nonsense after that they can be fully held to account for. If they promise single sex spaces are safe then every time that is breached Labour's credibility will be on the line

Or if they refuse to meet with the groups they prove EVERYTHING JKR said in her essay was right.

The media are now hyping the meeting further locking Labour in

BRING IT ON
Keir Starmer insists he WILL meet with JK Rowling to thrash out trans and gender rights & ‘respects’ her views
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28714134/keir-starmer-jk-rowling-trans/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/labour-gender-transition-recognition-process-trans.

Campbell is the sort or tribalistic person who will denounce JK for 'wrongthink' and yet when confronted with the simple demands of 'privacy and dignity', 'safety' and so on, will say " Of course women should have dignity and privacy and feel safe in their spaces"........before immediately going on about trans rights and the "most marginalised" et al.

Why can't these supposedly clued up public figures and politicians seem to be able to decipher the obvious. There need be no compromise. People can identify how they wish and should receive the same protections as everyone else...but that identification doesn't usurp material or observable reality and it doesn't have anything to do with women's rights and protections.

Third spaces and categories are the obvious solution for anyone with at least some wit. Yes, we know it is really about validation and that trans identified people want everyone to believe the same as they do about themselves - but in the court of public opinion and practical politics it is obvious how to resolve the issue for once and all.

@Shortshriftandlethal well said indeed.

On third spaces, which we would all support.
We know that there is no organised campaign for third spaces because it's OUR existing spaces that they want for their personal validation.

That Hannah Barnes article is brilliant, she really gets all the issues involved:

'Both Starmer and Rachel Reeves have said they would meet Rowling (no invitation was issued to Duffield). Rowling replied that she’d be happy to, but only after a string of grass-roots women’s organisations that have long raised concerns with Labour got a hearing. That it only offers to listen to one woman, who happens to be Britain’s most famous author, speaks volumes.

The problem is we don’t know what Labour stands for. History suggests that even if the party did issue a strong statement on how to accommodate both women and trans people’s rights, it would not stick to it – especially if it became expedient to abandon such a position.

This is not a manufactured “culture war”, as Labour wants to suggest. That it has become one is a product partly of the party’s own making. It is a real issue that needs a clear response. Sometimes you can’t keep everyone happy. “You want to be inclusive… but you do have to recognise sex segregation has a place not just for safety, but for the dignity of women as well,” Mahmood said in May. This is “where the party is… the common-sense position”. Recent events tell us otherwise.'

This!
Intimidation of women and Autogynephilia is what’s pushing a lot of men wanting to declare they are transitioning and be able to access single sex spaces.

I know it’s not really relevant to this thread, but JKR is on absolute fire now. She’s got the but between her teeth and she’s off! It is beautiful to behold!

Saw this earlier which just adds to the ridiculous of Sally Hines

😄😄

👏👏👏😂😂😂

The "archaeologists can always tell" is a gender critical urban legend

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.336G8HA

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/13/pelvic-bone-unreliable-in-identifying-gender/

Ah, Pink News, that fabulously reputable scientific journal.

@CaveMum, I completed the form to let them know it was posted on here. It might be helpful for them to know just incase they do receive malicious submissions to ignore.

Back to Rowling, she is being widely praised for this, but isn't this just spoiled blackmail manipulation?

"You can talk with me but only on my terms!"

If literally anyone else said that, everyone would be asking "and who the hell are you?"

It's not as clever as you think. Reminds me of a spoiled young teen being asked to do their homework and replying with "I'll do my homework as long as I don't have to eat dinner and I can have a 2nd chocolate iced-lolly!" It's that sort of thing and most people grow out of it around age 4-ish.

Rowling's special conditions to talk to her also involve telling other women what to do and say, including telling other women to stop calling the LGB-Alliance a hate group (which btw is listed on the globalextremism project).

globalextremism.org/post/release-ireland-report/

I knew pinknews aren't popular on here (they support trans people) so I also included a fact checker website which gives an explanation.

Isn't it a bit like years ago, when you always find one doctor who reckoned smoking didn't cause cancer?

Didn't the TRA arguments use to be of better quality in days of yore?

When looking at reputable sources which, crucially, look at various sex markers of skeletons including but not limited to the pelvis, sex is identified correctly in the vast majority of cases, by both experienced and inexperienced forensic practitioners -

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_url?url=bookcafe.yuntsg.com/ueditor/jsp/upload/file/20230403/1680486937260016880.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mg98ZoDEHbbKy9YPsbqkkAU&scisig=AFWwaeaEAobuNPxsL2U1yUxTm0c1&oi=scholarr

Your sources focus entirely on identification using the pelvic bone only, which was not the original statement of that thread of tweets.

And even putting that aside, do you believe that 'before the Enlightenment, the female skeleton didn't exist', as Hines appears to be claiming?

'Sex is typically determined by the morphology (shape) of the pelvis or skull and long bone measurements.'

In this paper, it was found elbow bones could be used to estimate sex:

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/camed/2019/10/23/researchers-accurately-estimate-the-sex-of-skeletons-based-on-elbow-features/

I'm working on an arse/elbow joke.

https://archaeology.co.uk/articles/sciencenotes/lets-talk-sex-determination.htm

Tooth enamel, too.

I know Rowling's opinion matters as much as anyone else's, but she is 1 person after all remember. What about the other 68 million of us who reside in Britain? Do we all have special meetings with the leaders too?

Will Rishi Sunak meet with me and bend over backwards to please and "assure me" if I tell him I will only talk to him if he raises minimum wage?

Or is it because I'm not a billionaire with 14M twitter followers?

Everyone's opinion matters, but some people's opinions obviously matter more than others.

Back to Rowling, she is being widely praised for this, but isn't this just spoiled blackmail manipulation?

"You can talk with me but only on my terms!"

If literally anyone else said that, everyone would be asking "and who the hell are you?"

What Rowling has publically highlighted is that Labour are pathetically eager to meet with a celebrity donor, but not groups representing women from their own party.

Thanks for sharing, but yes it's a study "in early stages with potential" which archs can use with other methods to take an intelligent guess at the sex of a skeleton if the skeleton or part of is all they have.

My point is there's no 100% clear cut method to determine the sex as of yet and intelligent guesses are often the best we have.

Which is precisely why JKR is refusing to be token spokeswoman! She wants a wider representation in the discussion. Her 'celebrity' status gets the possibility of the door opening, but JKR wants others to go through with her!

From the first sentence of that article (my bolds) -

'In the first ‘Science Notes’ (CA 333), we discussed the identification of a possible female Viking warrior using ancient DNA analysis. This is a guaranteed way to confirm sex in human remains, but can be costly, time-consuming, and destructive to the bone, meaning that it is not feasible when a project needs to determine the sex of a large number of skeletons.'

It might not be used widely due to being 'costly, time-consuming and (being) destructive to the bone' but it is a guaranteed way to confirm sex.

I completed the form to let them know it was posted on here. It might be helpful for them to know just incase they do receive malicious submissions to ignore.

Were you milk monitor at school by any chance?

Talk about petty.

The "archaeologists can always tell" is a gender critical urban legend

Like those other gender critical urban legends?

Men have penises, women don’t
Women have uteruses, men don’t
Sex is binary

Those urban legendeers have been busy, haven’t they?

Yeah, there's a good one in there somewhere: let us know when you've got it👍😁