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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pride in primary school

284 replies

Askingforafriend24 · 21/06/2024 01:26

Help me get my head around this. Primary school is making a huge deal about pride, and running a themed summer fair to celebrate. The whole school - kids and parents - are expected to get involved. Including an educational seminar for the parents that we are expected to attend!

I’ve been told point blank I am a dinosaur for questioning why there is such an emphasis on celebrating LGBTQ+ communities to a bunch of kids who probably don’t think about any of this stuff yet. There is already a carefully planned curriculum around all of this from the LA so I am confused as to why the school feels the need to go even further, particularly holding a massive event outside of school hours! I feel I have other things I would rather do with my Saturday morning, and I feel attending Pride events should be a choice for families to make for themselves.

One parent is no longer speaking to me because she was so horrified I even questioned the event - so hoping someone could come along with some advice.

Don’t get me started on sports day, when the kids all compete against each other (up until year 5) - which means the boys win pretty much everything and the girls come away empty handed. Again apparently I am ridiculous for daring to point out how unfair it is. Really fed up with it.

OP posts:
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Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 13:54

OldCrone · 22/06/2024 10:57

Do they learn what trans is, yes.

What do they teach them? Trans covers many things, including AGP, which isn't appropriate for children of primary school age.

I have shared just above what my ten year old has taken from lessons etc.

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 13:57

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 11:28

Women are only worthy of consideration in an historical context? Bet that did involve flags and fun activities for encouraging the girls in school.

It would also be interesting to know how many of those ‘invisible women in history’ were breaking the gendered conventions of the day (all of them?) such that they are being posthumously trans by gender ideologues. In light of your ‘trans’ teaching how many girls would be led to believe an interest in stereotypically male pursuits and the more practical clothing needed to pursue those pursuits means they are ‘actually boys’?

I was asked did other groups covered under the equality act there was an ascertain they weren’t. I simply gave one example of where other groups under the act are highlighted.

I really fail to see the scaremongering of your post. I have yet to hear any education setting doing as you have suggested.

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 13:58

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 11:33

Do they learn what trans is, yes.

Has your 16 year old learnt that some men experience sexual arousal when they think of themselves as their idea of a women and that transgressing women’s boundaries and requiring others to treat them as a woman heightens their arousal?

He says no while laughing his head off.

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 14:00

elgreco · 22/06/2024 11:40

I dont believe children in primary school in ireland are being taught about the cervical cancer scandal.
It's far too complicated.

Show me one school having a parade for women or anything/ anyone else other than pride/ paddy's day.

ASIam do a parade every year but to be support accessibility it is a ramble to the forest.

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 14:05

elgreco · 22/06/2024 11:40

I dont believe children in primary school in ireland are being taught about the cervical cancer scandal.
It's far too complicated.

Show me one school having a parade for women or anything/ anyone else other than pride/ paddy's day.

It was discussed in my eldest sixth class. They wrote a letter to Vicky Phelan - our school has always followed the children in their interests and supported them in engaging in development to be an active citizen.

99% of issues can be simplified and accessible at children’s level. As they get older then you bring more and more complexity . Think about war, younger children think ‘goodies, v ‘baddies’ as they get older they learn about the causes of war.

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 14:59

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 13:58

He says no while laughing his head off.

Why did he laugh?

Wills890 · 22/06/2024 15:02

Askingforafriend24 · 21/06/2024 01:26

Help me get my head around this. Primary school is making a huge deal about pride, and running a themed summer fair to celebrate. The whole school - kids and parents - are expected to get involved. Including an educational seminar for the parents that we are expected to attend!

I’ve been told point blank I am a dinosaur for questioning why there is such an emphasis on celebrating LGBTQ+ communities to a bunch of kids who probably don’t think about any of this stuff yet. There is already a carefully planned curriculum around all of this from the LA so I am confused as to why the school feels the need to go even further, particularly holding a massive event outside of school hours! I feel I have other things I would rather do with my Saturday morning, and I feel attending Pride events should be a choice for families to make for themselves.

One parent is no longer speaking to me because she was so horrified I even questioned the event - so hoping someone could come along with some advice.

Don’t get me started on sports day, when the kids all compete against each other (up until year 5) - which means the boys win pretty much everything and the girls come away empty handed. Again apparently I am ridiculous for daring to point out how unfair it is. Really fed up with it.

They won't shoot you if you don't go. Just don't go then.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/06/2024 15:23

Hellodarknessmyfriend · 22/06/2024 00:38

@ScrollingLeaves Again, I'm OK with my daughter holding hands with whomever she chooses to. In the same way as I'm OK with her, as she gets older, developing a relationship with a man or a woman.
I'm not go to suggest to her a preference for one or the other because ateotd it's entirely her choice.
Same with my much older sons.
Straight or gay makes not one jot of difference.

Yes, that’s fine.

What I am objecting to is not giving primary school children enough freedom from an adult impulse to introduce labels and fix them in a category as early as possible.

“Pride” itself is an adult idea that is becoming more extreme. Some lesbians, and gay men are distancing themselves from it. Starting children with “Baby Pride” to get them ready for adult versions of “Pride” is something they don’t need as a priority as part of school.

It is now an adult political agenda. The original need has been satisfied. It has gone beyond its original intentions and can now promote harmful ideas in teenagers’ and young people’s minds about their bodies and about no boundaries. Is it now supposed to be spread to primary school children?

I suspect this head has not caught up with the Cass review, and reforms to school teaching of PSHE.

This below was written by Dennis Kavanagh, who is head of The Gay Men’s Network, in Spiked magazine.

This year’s Pride Month has rarely seemed so pointless. After all, only the truly shameless in the LGBT activist set could feel any pride in 2024 – a year in which the rainbow-flag fliers’ betrayal of gay youngsters in the name of gender ideology was laid bare.

The publication of the Cass Review in April exposed the scandal of the NHS’s treatment of ‘gender confused’ kids. It showed how the NHS’s Gender Identity Development Services (GIDS) subjected troubled, often gay youngsters to life-altering hormones, drugs and treatments. Yet when these same-sex-attracted young people needed a gay movement, it failed them. Stonewall, its principal representative, actively cheered on those encouraging gay youngsters to believe they were born in the wrong body. Former Stonewall CEO Ruth Hunt even warned parents that half their gender-distressed children would commit suicide without puberty blockers. At the same time, leading sections of the gay movement turned on anyone questioning the trans agenda.

You won’t see any reflection on this betrayal of gays and lesbians during Pride Month. There will be no recognition that by embracing gender ideology, the gay-rights movement of today has undermined the gay rights of tomorrow. Instead, an unholy alliance of corporates, trade unions and parading gendercrats will spend weeks celebrating their supposed virtue, while remaining oblivious to the absurdity and growing unpopularity of the movement they represent.

Don’t let the ubiquitous Pride flag fool you over the coming weeks into thinking this is a successful movement. How strong can a ‘gay rights’ movement be if it has allowed its next generation to be chemically castrated? How strong can a movement be that has allowed lesbians like Kathleen Stock or Julie Bindel to be deplatformed, harassed and sacked for standing up to gender ideology?

The new ‘Progress Pride’ flag tells the story of the movement’s corruption. A new trans chevron makes an ugly incursion from the left, with an ‘intersex-inclusive’ purple circle placed on top of it (despite some intersex activists asking not to be included). This is more of a logo now and less of a flag. It symbolises the hostile takeover of the gay-rights movement by gender-identity ideology.

Pride was once our answer to shame. The riposte to being kicked out of your home for coming out. The retort to everyday incidents of homophobia, which are now thankfully a thing of the past in the UK and the West.

Today’s Pride is different. It is not a response to a sense of shame. It is a false pride born of shamelessness. A pride fuelled by the self-righteous embrace of the cause of trans rights. Think of Stonewall CEO Nancy Kelley calling lesbians ‘sexual racists’ in 2021 for not wanting to have sex with biological males. Think of those happily suppressing moderate gay voices for warning that ‘conversion-therapy bans’ simply criminalise ordinary therapy for gender-confused youth. Or how Stonewall did everything in its power to hound gender-critical barrister Allison Bailey out of a job.

Today’s Pride is different. It is not a response to a sense of shame. It is a false pride born of shamelessness. A pride fuelled by the self-righteous embrace of the cause of trans rights. Think of Stonewall CEO Nancy Kelley calling lesbians ‘sexual racists’ in 2021 for not wanting to have sex with biological males. Think of those happily suppressing moderate gay voices for warning that ‘conversion-therapy bans’ simply criminalise ordinary therapy for gender-confused youth. Or how Stonewall did everything in its power to hound gender-critical barrister Allison Bailey out of a job.

Pride, the holy month of the rainbow, is now a thoroughly rudderless affair. Its foolish embrace of the specious cause of trans rights has cost it dear. This increasingly silly party now takes place against the backdrop of a generation-defining medical scandal that Pride and its backers endorsed. Even Stonewall seems cowed. It certainly seems less keen to pronounce that transing a two-year-old is a good idea than it was just a few years ago.

Pride should parade its way into irrelevance. The gay-rights activism of the future will need to look very different.

Dennis Kavanagh is a director of Gay Men’s Network.

PorcelinaV · 22/06/2024 16:02

Sure let's teach kids about trans issues in schools. Let's bring in Stonewall or whatever.

But also, you have to bring in GC feminists and conservative speakers to address the kids yes?

I imagine everyone is OK with an open debate where both sides get to make their arguments...

OldCrone · 22/06/2024 16:20

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 13:58

He says no while laughing his head off.

Why haven't they taught them about this? A large number of older male heterosexual transitioners fall into this category. It's a pretty huge omission not to include this if you're teaching them about what trans is.

And what did he think was funny about it? Many of these men are married with children. It's not funny for their wives and children. The women and girls who find these men in their changing rooms don't usually think it's funny either.

FrancescaContini · 22/06/2024 18:39

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 13:53

my ten year old would describe trans as someone who feels they were born in the wrong sex body.

And are you happy that your ten year old is being taught at school that a person can be born “in the wrong-sex body”?

JustTalkToThem · 22/06/2024 19:09

OldCrone · 22/06/2024 16:20

Why haven't they taught them about this? A large number of older male heterosexual transitioners fall into this category. It's a pretty huge omission not to include this if you're teaching them about what trans is.

And what did he think was funny about it? Many of these men are married with children. It's not funny for their wives and children. The women and girls who find these men in their changing rooms don't usually think it's funny either.

“A large number” - statistics please.

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 21:50

FrancescaContini · 22/06/2024 18:39

And are you happy that your ten year old is being taught at school that a person can be born “in the wrong-sex body”?

Edited

I am fine with my child being taught that is what a person means when they say trans.

That is what then trans person who is a member of our school community. 🤷‍♀️

Crossingsout · 22/06/2024 21:54

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 21:50

I am fine with my child being taught that is what a person means when they say trans.

That is what then trans person who is a member of our school community. 🤷‍♀️

You're fine with children being taught they're in the wrong body? I think that's unnecessarily cruel, ghoulish and also incorrect. I hope nobody is teaching that! shocking

Persianpuss · 22/06/2024 22:01

Was my disabled child "born in the wrong body"?

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 22:03

OldCrone · 22/06/2024 16:20

Why haven't they taught them about this? A large number of older male heterosexual transitioners fall into this category. It's a pretty huge omission not to include this if you're teaching them about what trans is.

And what did he think was funny about it? Many of these men are married with children. It's not funny for their wives and children. The women and girls who find these men in their changing rooms don't usually think it's funny either.

Because I am not expert I have no agenda I am simply trying to raise non biggotted adults. I haven't studied the information i am simply am trying to ensure my children are respectful of all human beings.

My son was laughing because he gives no fucks (his words) what gets anyone else "off" and finds the idea of a group of people who do as needing to "get out more" . And he isn't wrecking his head going down the wormholes in their thinking.

He was part of the students committee that agreed the toilets were set in three categories - boys, girls and separate non gender single toilets for anyone who did not feel comfortable using the toilet of their sex. Amazingly when you speak to teens they have solutions and don't have the problems that are constantly on here. Maybe it's because they are all of a small community and know eachother since aged 5 ? So they have navigated it with discussions, respect and by consensus,🤷‍♀️

Perhaps the issues are in public places versus a shared space of am already established group?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not doing a PhD in gender studies. And it isn't my job to know everything. As I tell them I can only share my opinion .

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 22:04

Persianpuss · 22/06/2024 22:01

Was my disabled child "born in the wrong body"?

How did you get that from my post? Talk about a stretch!

I explained a person who is trans feels they were born in the wrong body as in the incorrect sex .

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 22:05

Crossingsout · 22/06/2024 21:54

You're fine with children being taught they're in the wrong body? I think that's unnecessarily cruel, ghoulish and also incorrect. I hope nobody is teaching that! shocking

I am fine with them learning an adult who is trans believes they were born the wrong sex . Yes because that is literally what the person they know said when asked 🤷‍♀️

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/06/2024 22:09

StormingNorman · Yesterday 07:44
I’m sure you are overthinking this in terms of sex education. Pride for children that age is surely just about understanding we love who we love and some families have two mums or two dads

This, absolutely.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 22/06/2024 22:14

My son was laughing because he gives no fucks (his words) what gets anyone else "off" and finds the idea of a group of people who do as needing to "get out more" . And he isn't wrecking his head going down the wormholes in their thinking.

colour me shocked that a teenage boy has zero understanding or empathy about the effect on women and girls of men’s paraphilias

OldCrone · 22/06/2024 22:17

JustTalkToThem · 22/06/2024 19:09

“A large number” - statistics please.

I actually asked the same question a couple of weeks ago on another thread. This is the reply I got from another poster.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5092904-sonia-sodha-in-the-observer-calling-out-labour?reply=135886784&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

Studying patients who had felt like women at all times for at least a year, Blanchard classified them according to whether they were attracted to men, women, both, or neither. He then compared these four groups regarding how many in each group reported a history of sexual arousal together with cross-dressing. 73% of the gynephilic, asexual, and bisexual groups said they did experience such feelings, but only 15% of the androphilic group did. He concluded that asexual, bisexual, and gynephilic transsexuals were motivated by erotic arousal to the thought or image of themself as a woman, and he coined the term autogynephilia to describe this.

The wikipedia page that this came from gives the following sources as references:

Lawrence, Anne (2013). Men Trapped in Men's Bodies: Narratives of Autogynephilic Transsexualism

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Psychobiology_of_Transsexualism_and/wNDCEAAAQBAJ?hl=en

Sonia Sodha in the Observer, calling out Labour... | Mumsnet

...for its response to Kemi Badenoch's proposal to clarify 'sex' in the Equality Act. [[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/09...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5092904-sonia-sodha-in-the-observer-calling-out-labour?reply=135886784

OldCrone · 22/06/2024 22:25

@Marblessolveeverything
I have no idea what you are talking about.

In that case, it might be useful for you to read a few more threads on here to understand the issues a bit better. I can recommend this thread for people who are new to this issue.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Break it down for me? | Mumsnet

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?page=1

FrancescaContini · 22/06/2024 22:28

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 21:50

I am fine with my child being taught that is what a person means when they say trans.

That is what then trans person who is a member of our school community. 🤷‍♀️

Does your child understand that this is a personal belief though rather than an established fact?

OldCrone · 22/06/2024 22:32

He was part of the students committee that agreed the toilets were set in three categories - boys, girls and separate non gender single toilets for anyone who did not feel comfortable using the toilet of their sex. Amazingly when you speak to teens they have solutions and don't have the problems that are constantly on here.

That sounds like a great solution doesn't it? Women here have been suggesting this for years. Unfortunately the males who say they want to be women don't like solutions like this. They want to be validated as real women, and don't want to be 'othered' with third spaces.

Similarly there was recently a sporting event for trans athletes which was cancelled because the trans athletes didn't want a trans event.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/03/swimming-world-cup-category-for-transgender-athletes-cancelled-after-no-entries-received

Swimming World Cup category for transgender athletes cancelled after no entries received

World Aquatics’ plans to debut a new open category for transgender athletes at this week’s swimming World Cup in Berlin have been cancelled after no entries were received

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/03/swimming-world-cup-category-for-transgender-athletes-cancelled-after-no-entries-received

Marblessolveeverything · 22/06/2024 22:32

Theeyeballsinthesky · 22/06/2024 22:14

My son was laughing because he gives no fucks (his words) what gets anyone else "off" and finds the idea of a group of people who do as needing to "get out more" . And he isn't wrecking his head going down the wormholes in their thinking.

colour me shocked that a teenage boy has zero understanding or empathy about the effect on women and girls of men’s paraphilias

The response was to the question about getting aroused. As you would well know if you read the post I responded to.

But that doesn't fit your absolutely clear agenda. Stop lying about others posts, 🤬 🤬

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