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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women are being cast as intolerant bullies in this Starmer-drawn landscape of female-imposed weariness

153 replies

IwantToRetire · 18/06/2024 00:42

Starmer (feels) weary of the incessant demands of feminist women that he commit to the annoying task of listening to them. He declared instead that “the people of the UK” are “exhausted” by the political battles over issues such as trans rights.

Keir (wants) to focus on “bringing people together rather than creating further division”. Who is Keir aiming to bring together? Women don’t want “bringing together” with men; that is rather the point and has been for more than a decade.

Sir Keir declared that he would “bring an end to those controversies [over trans rights] on day one.”

Is Keir assuming that all the women who have spent years campaigning, speaking, writing and lobbying in expectation that they would retain rights necessary for a safe and fair existence, simply forget what they were doing and wander off home in a daze?

It seems unlikely that immediately a woman from one of the large organisations advocating for women’s rights, like Sex Matters, said to another, “Come on Maya, you’ve had your fun, probably time to get a proper job now or sign on. People are fed up.”

Are we to assume the “vast majority” of these overly tired people are not women who want rights according to their sex? Women wanting single-sex prison accommodation, for example, are in Keir’s depiction of society, the unreasonable minority and it’s very tiring for the reasonable people to consider them. Although I imagine if you are the woman having to keep your eye on the male rapist in your cell, that could be a bit draining too.

Women are being cast as intolerant bullies in this Starmer-drawn landscape of female-imposed weariness. All the reasonable people want is peace. The “culture wars” have been long. Women have been putting culture guns to the tolerant people’s heads for too long and he will put an end to their irksome ways. The thing is, women are not a culture — the battle we fight is not for territory. Women are a sex, the female sex, and we fight for rights that we need when our bodies are the unfair focus of the opposite sex.

Moving ahead to day one of “The End of Pesky Women” I wonder what Keir imagines will happen. Perhaps at 4.30 pm exactly the miracle of women becoming silent women will occur; it seems a good time for women to wobble out of our various misguided, unreasonable groups, blinking in the sunlight, confused as to how we got it all so very wrong and made all the “other people” so exhausted. Perhaps there will be a party and women will clutch a plate of quiche and crisps, declaring to burn their rebellious t-shirts, ribbons, scarves and tea towels. Perhaps someone will be on the phone shouting over the music, “Scrap the ashtrays order, Kellie-Jay, it’s over love.”

https://thecritic.co.uk/culture-war-what-is-it-good-for/

(This is a much longer article raising many issues about Starmer’s Labour and women – I just pulled out the ones that struck home for me.)

Culture war, what is it good for? | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

Last week saw the release of the Labour Party manifesto. Many women had anticipated this with a growing sense of dread. It delivered on that anticipation of doom most effectively.

https://thecritic.co.uk/culture-war-what-is-it-good-for

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
TrainedByCatsToBeScathing · 18/06/2024 01:21

All excellent points.

Why does KS think he has the right to dictate what women can and can’t talk about? Frankly he and the rest of Labour (with exception of Rosie Duffield) can fuck right off with that misogynistic attitude.

lonelywater · 18/06/2024 01:29

TrainedByCatsToBeScathing · 18/06/2024 01:21

All excellent points.

Why does KS think he has the right to dictate what women can and can’t talk about? Frankly he and the rest of Labour (with exception of Rosie Duffield) can fuck right off with that misogynistic attitude.

Kier is a politician. everything for him is about balancing out competing rights and would rather this subject would just go away. he knows it won't so the least line of resistance is to spout mealy mouthed platitudes which say nothing decisive.

NefertitiV · 18/06/2024 02:02

Perhaps you should make it clearer that your source is an opinion piece. Starmer did not say he was "weary of the incessant demands of feminists".

IwantToRetire · 18/06/2024 02:06

NefertitiV · 18/06/2024 02:02

Perhaps you should make it clearer that your source is an opinion piece. Starmer did not say he was "weary of the incessant demands of feminists".

From OP:

This is a much longer article raising many issues about Starmer’s Labour and women

OP posts:
NefertitiV · 18/06/2024 02:18

@IwantToRetire

From OP:
This is a much longer article raising many issues about Starmer’s Labour and women

"Article" implies a news piece. This is an opinion - entirely different. That is why I was perplexed by the first line of the OP; I didn't think Starmer would say that and it turned out that he didn't. The opinion piece writer simply had that impression from the interview Starmer gave to someone else - and it was second-hand.

Crouton19 · 18/06/2024 05:27

How is he weary? He has done f* all in this 'war' except make things worse. He could end it faster by listening to women who have sensible answers and recommendations.

OuijaBoard · 18/06/2024 05:50

Sir Keir declared that he would “bring an end to those controversies [over trans rights] on day one.”

HOW, exactly, though? So far, he can't even protect candidates, experienced MPS, standing for election for his own party. He can't even ensure that they can go to the hustings and speak, if they are women.

If Starmer can calm things down over these issues - why hasn't he, and when and how will he?

nauticant · 18/06/2024 06:44

Starmer is calling for a re-imposition of #nodebate.

EdenPalmersTerfAuntie · 18/06/2024 06:53

NefertitiV · 18/06/2024 02:18

@IwantToRetire

From OP:
This is a much longer article raising many issues about Starmer’s Labour and women

"Article" implies a news piece. This is an opinion - entirely different. That is why I was perplexed by the first line of the OP; I didn't think Starmer would say that and it turned out that he didn't. The opinion piece writer simply had that impression from the interview Starmer gave to someone else - and it was second-hand.

"article implies a news piece" only in your head.
When your argument comes down to pathetic"ooooooh, this is a bit sloppy" tactics it's time to admit you've lost and go home.

EdenPalmersTerfAuntie · 18/06/2024 06:54

nauticant · 18/06/2024 06:44

Starmer is calling for a re-imposition of #nodebate.

Good luck with that Kier! I think a pop up women's rights festival outside no 10 on the 5th July is a good idea.

FannyCann · 18/06/2024 07:46

"Sadly, Sir Keir had been dabbing “Omnipotence – the new fragrance for leaders” behind his ears in advance of Manifesto Day and declared in the interview that he would “bring an end to those controversies [over trans rights] on day onee_.”"

Omnipotence - the new fragrance for leaders. Love it.

FannyCann · 18/06/2024 07:48

he would bring an end to those controversies [over trans rights]]_ on day one

Sorry, the hyperlink went crazy. It might do it again. 🤷‍♀️

NefertitiV · 18/06/2024 07:49

@EdenPalmersTerfAuntie

"article implies a news piece" only in your head.
When your argument comes down to pathetic"ooooooh, this is a bit sloppy" tactics it's time to admit you've lost and go home.

The opinion piece is sloppy and based on very few words from Starmer, and the OP doesn't really indicate that at all. That's just how it is.

There isn't a need for insults.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 18/06/2024 07:58

nauticant · 18/06/2024 06:44

Starmer is calling for a re-imposition of #nodebate.

Good luck to him putting that back in the bottle.

PriOn1 · 18/06/2024 08:00

I said on another thread on a similar topic, ironically any movement away from women’s rights will only result in a more protracted battle. The noise is coming from transactivists and will come regardless of which way politicians take it.

Their interest isn’t really trans rights, it’s agitation. Give them something more, they’ll carry right on, demanding something else.

Women will keep on objecting while their rights are removed. The quiet majority of the general public are gradually getting more pissed off as they recognize men in women’s spaces isn’t fair, and more and more see which men are deciding to take advantage.

Any move Keir makes in the wrong direction will only lengthen the war.

My worry is that some other male centric group will take andvan of the unrest and get a dangerous foot in the door. Women’s rights are more at risk than they’ve been for a long time.

AnthuriumCrystallinum · 18/06/2024 08:30

Women’s rights are more at risk than they’ve been for a long time

I agree.

I'm starting to think that the insidious creep of the American religious right is the biggest coming threat.

Women's rights share some political positions with both the left and the right, but those shared positions are incidental rather than by design. Neither is truly for women.

fromorbit · 18/06/2024 08:36

Interesting article, it does correctly position Starmer's position somewhat, he certainly wants women to keep quiet and the TRAs too. Obviously neither side are going to because the stakes are too high.

The reaction to Starmer suspending Cashman highlights this. As far as TRAs are concerned this is wholly evil thing to do because Duffield is evil. For Starmer he had to silence Cashman because the stakes the election were too high. He did the right thing now will he keep doing it?

Obviously there will be an all mighty row as soon as the attempt to bring in the "conversion" therapy ban occurs. What Starmer will try to do in the end we shall see. We don't know which side he will pick. I think he will continue to try to avoid the choice till the last minute.

However what Starmer has to understand is BOTH sides are going to attempt to destroy him if he betrays him. The advantage of coming down on the women's side is our demands are way more limited and reasonable an sustainable because they are true. Going on the TRA side traps you into a path which ends up with where Sturgeon is now and where Biden might be in November.

The TRA side is riddled with people who just want to get away with crimes, and mess up kids which for Starmer who wants to be justice giver is a bad choice.

The thing is Starmer will win this election, but what he has to see is the grounds for the 2028/9 election are being laid too. Everyday more truth comes out. By 2028 the landscape will look very different.

SinnerBoy · 18/06/2024 08:39

OuijaBoard · Today 05:50

HOW, exactly, though? So far, he can't even protect candidates, experienced MPS, standing for election for his own party

He can, of course, it's just that he's decided not to do so. It's my considered opinion that it's to try to remove a dissenting voice, as well as to bring others to heel.

He's contemptible.

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 08:42

He is taking calls on LBC at 09.00 today. It will be interesting to hear which callers are allowed through.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2024 08:45

Dear Keir Starmer,

The way to end this war is to listen to women. Respect our language and single sex spaces. Use separate language and provide separate spaces for trans people so there is no safety argument. If trans people complain because what they want is to be in the same space as unconsenting women even when there are no safety concerns because they have already been separately provided for, you politely tell them to piss off and carry on running the country.

Scruffily · 18/06/2024 08:48

Women don’t want “bringing together” with men; that is rather the point and has been for more than a decade.

That's rather a large assumption. I suspect that, at the very least, a hefty proportion of women regard themselves as equal to men and are perfectly happy to be together with them. I work with men and women on an equal footing every day, I socialise with them on the same basis. I would find it bizarre to be trying to do anything else. I can't see what's wrong with trying to extend that for society as a whole.

Scruffily · 18/06/2024 08:49

TrainedByCatsToBeScathing · 18/06/2024 01:21

All excellent points.

Why does KS think he has the right to dictate what women can and can’t talk about? Frankly he and the rest of Labour (with exception of Rosie Duffield) can fuck right off with that misogynistic attitude.

Has he actually claimed any right to do that?

anyolddinosaur · 18/06/2024 08:50

He could end the culture wars quickly - he can declare that Stonewall, Mermaids and the like are no longer eligible for government funding, that trans activists threatening violence will be prosecuted and that employment tribunals have the power to award larger damages when employers are at fault. The last of these is support for workers rights, has no cost for fair employers and is therefore completely something that Labour should get behind.

fromorbit · 18/06/2024 08:54

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2024 08:42

He is taking calls on LBC at 09.00 today. It will be interesting to hear which callers are allowed through.

The Cashman scandal is fresh I bet at least one call on that will come in.

Datun · 18/06/2024 08:55

If he thinks the general public are fed up with the issue, he's right. Btl comments are often, oh, not this again, etc. But not because they think women are wrong. It's because they think the whole fucking thing is ridiculous, and yes of course men shouldn't be in women's prisons, sports, changing rooms. Dur.

So unless removing men from those spaces is 'sorting it out on day one', he's going find he's inflamed it, rather than sorted it.