To those who consider prostitution rape...

[Ahsoka2001]

I recently found some old MN threads where posters debated whether a man who has sex with a prostitute commits rape. Those in favour argued that the woman's consent is not freely given - it is conditional on the basis money is exchanged and consent cannot be bought -

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3012135-Is-prostitution-rape

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/2791778-does-having-sex-with-a-prostitute-constitute-rape

To those who agree with this position, I'm wondering where exactly do we draw the line? If all prostitution is rape, then -

a) What about female pornstars? They only have sex on camera on the condition that they are paid for the shoot. Does this mean every male pornstar in history is a rapist because the woman's consent was bought and not freely given?

b) What about mainstream/narrative cinema actresses? If a female Hollywood star only consents to a sex scene on the condition of receiving a paycheck for the role, does that mean they're being sexually assaulted when they perform a scene in which they're kissed/touched sexually? Does this mean male Hollywood actors who partake in these scenes are sexual assaulters?

...Surely not! But again, if all prostitution automatically equals rape, then how and where do we draw the line?

I feel like Paxman.

What

Proportion

Of

Women

Is

OK

To

Rape?

rapes

what proportion is acceptable?

come on it's really a very simple question

So because modern slavery is OK so long as it doesn’t involve sex work?

I would say 0% of actual rape is OK.

so safer for no one to pay for sex, yes?

seems like the most logical way to achieve your zero rapes

I would say 0% of actual rape is OK.

Great. The only safe way, therefore, is not to use sex workers.

Oh and I know you were being LOOK OVER HERE WHATABOUTERY but just to be clear, I hire workers I know for my home. They aren't trafficked.

What percentage of modern slavery is acceptable?

How do you know they’re not trafficked? Do you ask to see a passport or interview them?

Have you ever used a had car wash? A nail bar? A takeaway?

What percentage of modern slavery is acceptable?

If you only care about slavery in relation to making a point about sex work, you don't actually care. Most trafficking is for sex.

ah, wataboutery

if this thread was called 'is all modern slavery rape' then that would be a cunning riposte

this thread however, is about prostitution

we've established that in at least some cases, purchasing sex is rape.

you have said that 0% of rape is acceptable

therefore it seems logical to assume that you now support measures to do away with the buying of sex?

you really are desperate for it to be ok for you to buy sex aren't you?

Do you ask to see a passport or interview them?

I literally have interviewed some of them. My tradespeople come from my work. I can post a picture of my nails to prove my lack of nail bar use.

But again, if you only care about slavery to make a point that men should be able to rape women, you don't really care.

I was simply following your logical leap.

You admit that modern slavery is wrong?

We should clearly ban all nail bars, all block paving companies, all fast food restaurants.

it’s a ridiculous argument you’re trying to make.

Lots of women choose to make a living by sex work, that’s none of my business, if they do so voluntarily as adults often for very good compensation I don’t see why I have a right to stop them.

Legalise it all, regulate it, allow it to happen in a safe environment, and provide medical care. It’s the oldest trade in the world and it’s not going anywhere.

To sum up the argument:

Women are unable to accept accountability/personal accountability.

Also: men need to buy sex because its a need. Men can't be expected to check/know if the woman they are paying to have sex with is being trafficked. You can't expect men not to pay for sex with trafficked women when other forms of trafficking also exists, its not fair. I need sex, its a need, I can't find anyone to have sex with me that I don't pay.

(n.b. Not all men. But the men arguing this on this very thread).

I don't think any of us over emotional, fuzzy thinking Laydies can compete with the logic, so I'm bowing out of the thread now.

Those people who insist that sex work is work and a matter of personal choice, has never had an honest conversation with a sex worker, I would wager. My first such conversation was over 40 years ago and I have had many subsequent conversations, the "happy hooker" is simply one way for men to allow themselves to pay to use a woman's body, without appropriate guilt.

I would say 0% of actual rape is OK.
Eewww.
You aren't really coming across all that well. When is a rape not an "actual rape"?

I'd say that's accurate 🤣

Although, it's like the old days of FWR. Some man turning up to get comprehensively pwned by the superior intellect. 💃

The act of a person putting their penis in another persons mouth, anis or vagina without consent?

However some people want to take this incredibly serious offence and blur the definition significantly to meet a political agenda.

‘M just pointing out the hypocrisy in the sentiment in this subject.

Its telling you can’t make an argument against it other than having to Isengard a straw man.

It's telling you can’t make an argument against it other than having to Isengard a straw man.

Not as telling as men arguing desperately for the right to have sex with women who don't want to have sex with them.

And a Tolkien typo does scream incel

Sex with someone against their will is rape.

A person who chooses to freely accept payment for sex with a person they don’t really want to have sex with is a choice by a consenting adult.

To try and claim all prostitution is rape is doing a massive disservice to people in the first category.

well, people on this thread have talked about trafficked women. I assume your talk of modern slavery means that you acknowledge trafficking of prostituted women is common?

they do not and cannot consent to men having sex with them

so that is rape by your definition no?

i'm not clear how anyone is blurring any definitions here

oh well heaven forbid we do them a disservice to prevent a large number of women and children being raped...

...oh hang on a minute, that would be fine. let's do that