Scared and disheartened today

[teawamutu]

The Rosie Duffield interview in the Times, the commitment to make GRCs easier to get in Labour's manifesto, all the sneering about culture wars, the Tories doing SO bloody badly...

It feels like we're about to lose all the ground we fought so hard to regain, let alone the potential advances that just won't happen now.

Also there are other court cases including the Mermaids one

Because there is not unlimited time and the cost of living, NHS, social care, education, housing etc etc etc are much more important issues.
I am genuinely shocked that some people here are thinking of voting Conservative after all the years of lies, incompetence and corruption have brought the country to its knees.
Please don’t risk our future on a protest vote on a single issue.

but I'm afraid I think the idea that we can fight it once they're in power with a big majority is delusional

I agree with this.

I think one of two things will happen. Labour will get in and quietly let this whole thing drop whilst they get on with the stuff the country actually needs to get done.

Or Labour will get in and get self- ID through as one of their first priorities so that it is all done and dusted and media attention away from it well before the next election.

Unfortunately, I think KS, and others around him, is a true believer, much like NS, and he'll do the latter and push this through early on.

I'm not voting labour to keep my conscious clear from having any part in enabling that.'

Thanks for that RebelliousCow - I am in the same location, and also pleased to be rid of the previous MP, so it's useful to know the new one's position.

There have, IMO, been hopeful signs of pragmatism from senior Labour names - Streeting (health) said they would honour the Cass recommendations, and John Healey (Labour defence spokesman) has already said the EA "already protects single sex spaces for biological women", and "they [politicians] got in wrong in Scotland" and that “we can learn lessons from there” earlier this week (7.56, 3rd June - ignore the headline on the page)

Bleeding nora! I won’t vote Tory but the redefining of women tk include women and men with special feelings impacts on loads of things

crime
nhs
Data
education
sport
employment

it’s not a single issue

To paraphrase Suzanne Moore, who put it far better than I ever can, the 'single issue' is trust. Once that has gone, everything else falls away with it.

Not if Labour win the election.

Oh, brilliant. Because the lack of a second house has gone so fucking well in Scotland.

It just struck me that Labour may have seen the shitshow up here and thought ... 'oooh, unopposed all-powerful license to do whatever the fuck we want and punish our enemies, I'll have some of that'

Yes, it's that, basically.

The 'gender' stuff is just about power. How it's wielded and who has it.

It's going to be an expensive few years holding labours feet to the fire.

But I'm happy to contribute

I'm afraid I think this. They had such a chance in opposition to ask the government:

• How come you're letting men in with women in prison? Isn't that a recipe for disaster?
• Why's there a man in charge of a rape crisis, obsessed with rape victims and orgasm? Doesn't that feel like a red flag to you?
• Why are all these young girls lining up to get into GIDS?
• Don't you think sex education should be about facts, and not about encouraging abuse? Shouldn't someone be looking at the full background of things like the dice game? And the "Family Sex Show"?
• The NSPCC seems to be telling people that "kink shaming" is wrong but they're querying this hire, who's filmed himself wanking at work. Shouldn't you be doing something about that?
• What's up with Mermaids and the Discord server? Shouldn't the police be investigating?

But no.

They've aided and abetted the Tory TRAs. I know the word "delusional" seems harsh and loaded, and rude. But I think it is deluded to think they will be different. They won't. It'll be a wall to wall Stonewall-Mermaids Fest.

This was exactly my musings whilst trotting along with the dog this morning.

One of two ways: quietly dropped or super gung ho, full steam ahead. Please god the former.

I'm not voting for them either way. But I'm really torn about who to actually vote for, as my indie hope hasn't responded to my Sex Matters questions (only one who hasn't), so he's going to lose my vote at this rate.

I know. It's so depressing. I honestly think I'm just not going to bother to vote. There is NOONE I can in all good conscience vote for. I've longed for a Labour Got for so long, but the thought of a Labour win genuinely fills me with fear. We've worked so hard to push back against this anti women ideology for so long and it feels like it could all be gone overnight.

Same, cannot vote for a party that doesn't know the difference between men and women, and which shows such callous disregard for the safety, dignity and privacy of women and girls. If they lie to your face that men can be women, how can you trust them on anything?
I'm left-leaning but it'll be Tory or Reform (and I'll hold my nose! ) depending on who has a better chance of keeping the Scottish Nasty Party out in my constituency.
Labour will get into WM but just let them DARE bring in self ID. Well have to mobilise as a sex-class to remind them we're 51% of the population.
Onwards!

I know the word "delusional" seems harsh and loaded, and rude. But I think it is deluded to think they will be different.
Yes I'm sorry if that sounded harsh but I was describing the idea, not anyone proposing it. In fact at one point, now long ago, it was an idea I thought I could agree with.

Wasn't accusing you of anything and apologies if it came off like that. But there's no other word really. It is the correct word.

On a slight tangent, I think any majority like that predicted is unhealthy regardless of who succeeds. Probably partly what did for the Tories. No need to work for anything.

This seems like a good idea. Is there someone more articulate than me who fancies drafting a template? Or is there one somewhere already?

Absolutely no need to apologise, it didn't come off like that! But I took the point and realised I might have sounded harsher than I'd intended.

I agree about huge majorities although in this particular instance, I'd prefer that to watching them do a deal with Lib Dems / SNP etc, I also think it's true of any party that holds power for too long (e.g. more than 2 terms). You end up lazy and complacent.

Sex Matters have done a template.

Are labour planning to get rid if the House of Lord? ive just read something that said they were thinking about it but have changed their minds

Yes me too

Assuming that Labour Would not have have blocked the Scottish plans for self-ID (had they been in power at the time), once in power will the SNP/Scottish Greens get what they want? (Can Section 35 be removed because if so I am assuming this will happen in Scotland first, then Wales, then England.

Unless it's a bloodbath for SNP and Scottish Greens with clear signposting that it was their weddedness to GI that pushed them under.

I don't hear much on this board about voting for Greens or SNP. Could they be the real casualties? If so will this send a message to Labour to be wary?

Do at know what the Farage position is on Gender Issues? Because having seen some of the debates so far, I think he’s got a fair chance of getting quite a few MPs.

As someone who thinks the Atlee government was the apogee of parliamentary achievements in the UK, it is in no way appealing to think of Reform as a significant political party. However, no one in the current political Left mainstream seems to have learned from Brexit and the Red Wall falling at the last election, and the apparently inexplicably enduring popularity of Trump. And as demonstrated from recent threads on here, there is still a horrible tendency of The Left to denounce “wrong think”, and Farage is undeniably charming and appealing to those voters who “The elite” have written off as ignorant and bigoted. Some of them may well be, but they are also citizens and have the same rights and votes as me.

Farage is more dangerous than Boris Johnson because he has both the charm and apoeal to that category of voter, but I also think Farage is a far more astute political operator and less likely to get bored and lose interest after a few months as an MP. He’d bloody love the drama of standing up to Starmer at PMQ every week.

Farage is a far more astute political operator

He has the advantage of having been round the block. A bit grey round the chops. That stood out a lot in the BBC debate.

Farage who got his first city job straight out of school after a cosy chat with his dad's golf buddy. He has played a blinder pretending he's not a standard posho old boy's club nepotism baby.