BBC at it again withholding fact ‘woman’ charged with murdering husband is trans

[Heylo]

You know what to do Mumsnet. BBC apologised previously because of mass complaints about sick cat killer Scarlett Blake not being referred to as trans and just being referred to as she / woman in original article. They’re now at it again.

this person arrested for killing husband with samurai sword.

bbc article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp00de3r3qro

daily mail article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13480347/amp/Trans-woman-70-appears-court-accused-murdering-husband-samurai-sword.html

complain and let’s get a precedent set, these are not our crimes!

if they want me to address them as her/she I will... why wouldn't I who does it affect.

Perhaps it doesn't affect you, but it affects other people. Like female rape victims. But who gives a shit, right? Doesn't affect you personally...

As JKR (and many other wise women) have said: "Asking a woman to refer to her male rapist or violent assaulter as 'she' in court is a form of state-sanctioned abuse. Female victims of male violence are further traumatised by being forced to speak a lie."

I don't have an issue with this being pointed out as I've already stated. However there are elements to your opinions that I completely disagree with.

Ask for things you feel discriminate against woman certainly but when we get into a refusal to let people be happy in their own skin, that's a different story. I don't want to decend into personal attacks so I want to be careful with my words on this issue.

There have been some exceptionally Well balanced and interesting replies on this thread, I've been really intrigued and learnt a few things so I say thankyou to those posters.

Why would what I address someone else by affect rape victims? I don't know any rapists?

Should innocent people who happen to be transgender all pay the price for the rapist ones??

"Being happy in their own skin" for THEM requires 100% capitulation to their demands though.
It means allowing them unfettered access to all female services and safe spaces.

Are you okay with that?
What about all the women who are NOT okay with that?
TRAs want trans women to be treated as nothing less than women in EVERY sphere of society so they can be "happy in their own skin".

I give up

If you call a trans woman "she" or trans man "he", you are:

1. taking the only language we have to refer to sex and making it mean something different, meaning there are no words left to refer to sex when we need to in conversation, in research and in law
2. accepting that something in a man's mind makes him interchangeable with someone who has lived their whole life as female, or vice versa

We should not give away our own identity and our own rights in an attempt to make people who have a distorted relationship to their own sex and sexist ideas about which types of minds are the correct ones for men and women feel happy in their own skin, because what those people think they need to be "happy" is very very bad for the rest of us.

No I've come to understand that in trying to provide them equality that woman's rights have been affected. It took me a while but I've realised that they do need to compromise.

The issues are separate for me, they need to be registered as transgender in my opinion neither male or female on their own. However that doesn't mean that we have to make them utterly miserable and other them day in and day out either.

However there are elements to your opinions that I completely disagree with.

Likewise.

But they don't WANT to be referred to as transgender do they? That's the problem.
Third/unisex spaces have been offered time and time again, as well as separate groups, changing rooms, swimming sessions, wards, etc.
It's not what they are demanding.
You've probably heard of a "celeb" trans women who boasted about going well out of their way to find a women's toilet to use, because they did not want to use the gender neutral one right next to them.
They don't want to be registered as "transgender".
They would argue against the point you made above and claim that THIS would make them "utterly miserable".
And that is why the pronoun game feeds into this. We are pretending that these people ARE actually women, when they can never be and because their "rights" will ALWAYS clash with women's rights.

I'm not giving away anything lol. Being a woman doesn't define me... being me and my thoughts and actions define me. Being kind to people, not making their lives an absolute misery to protect some notion that they are somehow stealing my identity lol. I'm a woman and they can't change that even if they want to be known as one aswell.

I think I understand what your trying to say though that you somehow feel your identity will be cancelled by the fact that they were born male and want to be known as female. For me what I do is more important that is my identity.

a refusal to let people be happy in their own skin

Their skin is male. Or female. Gender identity is meaningless to me.

You're just coming out with twee platitudes. What does "be happy in their own skin" even mean? If it means you think everyone should pretend they think they've changed sex, you're onto a loser there.

Being a woman doesn't define me.

It defines which of the two biological sexes you are. Like it or not. And that doesn't need to affect how you live your life most of the time, but sometimes it does for biological reasons.

Annnnnd we're back to #bekind.

I'm glad women's and girls' rights are so 'lol' to you.
Jeez.

It always sounds slightly Ed Gein, to me.

Being a woman doesn't define me...

Are you a mummy, @Mummy2024 ?

It took this poster a while to realise why other women might just have a tiny problem with being expected to pretend that they think a group of males are women, so there we go.

"I'm not giving away anything lol. Being a woman doesn't define me... being me and my thoughts and actions define me. Being kind to people, not making their lives an absolute misery to protect some notion that they are somehow stealing my identity lol. I'm a woman and they can't change that even if they want to be known as one aswell."

But you ARE giving something away by playing into this.

If women cannot be defined in law, they cannot be protected under the law.

You say you "are a woman and they can't change that". But what does being a woman actually MEAN if there are no definitions any more?
If any man can be called a woman simply by virtue of declaring himself trans, then what is woman?

When there is no definition of "woman", then there is no safety or protection, because we cannot legislate for them. You cannot protect a woman's from men in a hospital ward if you cannot define what a woman ACTUALLY is and any man who says he is a woman can also have access to it. And prisons. And refuges. And toilets. And sports, And changing rooms.

And so on.

YOU may not care, but there are many many women who DO.

As I stated earlier the government makes the laws in this land. They pass ones we don't like all the time. I've no idea why they can't just lay down the law, say this is how it is and end this horrendous feud and dragging the whole male population down with it.

It really bothers me, more than it even bothers my husband tbh, that all men end up getting trashed and bashed, including the law abiding good ones when it comes to this debate.

If this were woman being discriminated as a whole and dragged down in this way there would be absolute uproar.

I'm glad women's and girls' rights are so 'lol' to you.
Jeez.

This poster has already proudly proclaimed that she isn't a feminist (unnecessarily). And has a few choice MRA talking points that she obviously feels we have never heard before.

I do want to define them in law as trans females and trans men. That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge them as they want to be acknowledged. Both can be done.

I do want to define them in law as trans females and trans men

Why do you use a wrong sex based term for the males, and a "gender" based term for the female people?

No, you do not understand what I have said at all.

I am a woman.

This is not my "identity" in the personal sense of self that could somehow be "cancelled". It is certainly not, despite what trans people believe, something to do with how I think.

It is a simply fact about me in the same way that my shoe size, my height and my intelligence are. However, unlike my my shoe size, my height and my intelligence, it is something about me that is discriminated against in our society both in large, structural ways like the childcare burden and unconscious bias in employment, education and culture, and in intimate, personal ways like how men (not all men, but enough men to matter) feel entitled to speak over me, demand my attention, and at worst physically or sexually abuse me.

These things are true. They happen. They happen to us because we are women. If there is no language to name ourselves as women they do not stop happening, we just lose the ability to describe it, identify the patterns and puts laws and other mitigations in place.

When you give away our language, this is what you give away. And you give it away for no other reason than to make people who are deeply sexist, so sexist that they think men and women have to think a certain way, "happy". You might value other women so little that you think that is ok, but I do not.

I don't know, I think it's because I've seen the words mens crimes here alot or maybe because subconsciously I place a higher value on my own gender 😆 hopefully not the second one but who knows

Well said @FlirtsWithRhinos